Before I start, I'm not bashing him, we wouldn't even be in the position we got to without his try scoring this season, no doubt. His vocal leadership has played a big part too, and I'm not doubting his effort and enthusiasm and committment.

But has anybody watched him closely this season in defence? Especially last night, he flies in constantly, flapping as the ball just goes over his head out to the wing and then Burgess is off racing 40-50 metres downfield, and I'm not so sure it's justified 90% of the time he does it, the winning try from Burgess and the reason he had that space was because Joel came in to launch himself at Sarginson. I know wingers will get caught out from time to time, but he seems to do it when his centre hasn't even left him in a bad position yet.

Off to get my tin hat.

agree with this. Wonderful try scorer but his defensive efforts last night were woeful running out of the line when there was not the need to do so leaving his centre with at least two men to defend against.

Like a moth to a flame.
Gave the game to Wigan.

From an NRL / SoO standard winger, his defence does leave a lot to be desired.

He's not a bad lad, though

I must say, earlier this season when we played Salford away & Atkins was being slated for his defence,all their tries came down Joel's wing.

Offiah wasn't in the team for his defence was he, or Brian Bevan.

It's more positioning though than ability to tackle imo.

I know you like to fish occasionally, but are you seriously comparing Joel Monaghan to either Offiah or Brian Bevan??

Monaghan is a fine finisher. Any centre would love him outside them in attack, as would any half back with a decent kicking game, as, within sniffing distance of the tryline, there is no one better in our league.

However, he is the slowest winger I've ever seen in a Wire shirt. He has no sidestep. He rarely beats a man. He can't even finish an interception because of his lack of speed.... and, yes, his defence is ropey.

I know we live in an entirely different era, but upto about 20 years ago, no team in the world would have Monaghan playing on the wing - Centre maybe, but definitely not wing..... Back when wingers were wingers, and crowds actually paid their entrance money, just to watch what flair and magic they would come up with, the likes of John Bevan, Des Drummond, Joe Lydon, etc, would have had a field day against him.

HA HA never beats a man, the line must have been wide open 30+ times this year. Some times you wonder what people no about the game, Joel would be first choice in any super league teams and most nrl teams.

I can hear the music from the Hovis ad being played as we speak.

Des Drummond was fast and I remember him scoring some great long rangers, but why was his overall try scoring record for us so average - 69 in 182 games.

He played back in the day when teams would often win their home games and often lose the away fixture, with the exception of Wigan.
So that strike rate SC looks to support that.

When the forwards were out on their feet Rhys Evans would often come inside to do some hard yards, i don't think Joel did this enough.

As I said Sally, completely different eras...... Hardly anybody ever tried the high kick to the corner tactic which is now so prevalent in the modern game, which must make up a significant percentage of Monaghan's tries.

Out of interest, I'd love to know the actual stats for Monaghan tries that come from kicks to the corner. I'd also like to know the total amount of yards that Monaghan has had to run with ball in hand to the tryline (from the moment he receives the ball to grounding for a score).... I'd then like to see a similar yardage stat for Drummond's 69 tries - I bet Dessie is a distance clear on that one.

Overall, while Monaghan is undoubtedly a top winger in the SL era, I know, for sheer bums-off-seats entertainment, which of Dessie and him I'd sooner watch on youtube.

DSM
Agreed
Dessie
Phil Ford and even Kevin Penny.
I was watching Keith Fielding on superstars u tub yesterday running the 100yrds in 9.9secs

Wigan definitely targeted Wire right edge/wing defence, and it wasn't by accident.

Did Wigan target the right edge defence due to JM or because they knew Bridge was a long way from fully fit and wasn't fully mobile.
Smith's team selection hinted Bridge was in trouble with him including Russell instead of Wood.

Let's be honest, both of Warrington's wingers can be a bit iffy in defence. Why did Widnes target Evans over Monaghan? During the league defeat to Wigan, Charnley and Gelling were rampant during that second half against Evans. Wingers can have off days, they make errors in judgement just like every other player; unfortunately they're a bit like goalkeepers in the sense that, if they do make a mistake, it's often the costliest.

This argument doesn't make sense.

Teams always won at home is not the same as saying players scored fewer tries.

If you look at the try tallies back then of guys like Offiah, Schofield, Newlove, Paul Eastwood, Steadman, Hunte, Sullivan, Cordle there were a lot of prolific scorers in those days.

Dessie himself scored 141 tries in 280 games for Leigh before joining us so was a much more regular scorer there than at Warrington.

It just seems odd that he was never really a big scorer of tries with us whereas you can't say he had lost pace at the end of his career because he was still quick and could still beat players by going the long way round them in an arcing run and doing them for pace.

I have said it many times...a winger is only as good as his last pass.
If Bev didn't get a pass he would show his displeasure and sit on the touchline.

Joel is scoring more because of the form of Bridge.
If Dessie was outside Bridge he would blow Joel out of the water. Hicks was awesome as a winger when outside Bridge.

You really like Bridge, considering Joel played much of the season off the wing his record is immense!

Well I've read some tripe on here over the last few years but this thread takes the biscuit!
In previous seasons the argument against Joel was that all he did was catch Briers' pinpoint kicks and fall over the line. Strange that this season he is the leading try scorer when there has been a marked lack of accurate kicking.
Couldn't finish the interception at Cas...didn't you notice the knock to his ankle?
Wigan targeting his wing...his regular centre had gone off early on.
He only scores because Bridge is his centre partner...sorry RubberDuckie but weren't you the one pointing out that Bridge played a significant part of the season at halfback?

The pair of you can't see the woods for the trees

His inside assist has been Bridge in almost all cases

When on wing his centre was Bridge
When at centre his stand off was Bridge

His finishing has been outstanding this year and I would say that his positioning and power is the reason he has scored so many tries this season, put another winger/centre and even with bridge and his magical passes they would have not been scored!

I like Bridge but Joel is not a great player just because of Bridge!

Completely agree with that

I think Bridge has shown real maturity this year and played really well...but he's not the Messiah...