Okay then, what went wrong ? After 40 mins where you couldn't see Saints scoring, with pretty much every Warrington player outplaying their opposite number, what happened after 51 minutes ? One thing for me was that James Graham put in a performance that showed why he was voted Man Of Steel, I thought he was immense, carried Saints at times during that game.

For the first 50 minutes how good was our pack ? It didn't matter what props we had on, Paul Wood came on, massive drives, great yardage. Rauhihi great, Carvell was very good. I thought Louis Anderson got through a tonne of work in midfield, looking far hungrier to be involved than i'd seen before. Westwood was immense, PJ had Gilmour well under wraps, Higham was dominating proceedings and we had Riley joining the line looking a real threat with a combination of pace and running good, clever lines.

Then, Carvell loses the ball, Gilmour races past PJ like Usain Bolt and minutes later they are in again, you can sense what's coming, all of us can. It's like a big ball of momentum is gathering, and Warrington haven't got a clue how to stop it. Minutes before, we mullered Saints in a set of six, one of the best sets of six I've ever seen (I know I'm jizzing over six tackles, sorry) but it was brilliant, seeing Pryce kick hastily on the last tackle and Penny collect it in the Saints half, but this looked a long time ago as we fell off tackle after tackle, and suddenly all over the pitch Saints were winning those battles. What causes such a turnaround ? Fatigue ? Mental Fatigue ? Saints 'extra gear' ? What is it ? What turns us from worldbeaters to chumps in minutes, seconds ? If Long could kick, the result would have been 38-14, meaning we'd have conceded 38 pts, in 29 minutes, sound familiar ??

Anyhow, it's bad to pick out individuals, but I think we should, a couple of shockers, but first the good ones ...

Westwood - You nearly don't praise him anymore as you expect it. Well, we shouldn't, I thought he was pretty good overall.

Carvell - Big go forward, big defence.

Higham - 50 minutes of class, then like the rest fell away.

Riley - Looks to be getting better & better. Could make that FB spot his own.

P.Wood - I thought he was great for the last 15 mins of the first half.

(Then you had folk like PJ, Louis Anderson, Rauhihi, Briers, King even who in the first half I thought did pretty well)

Then, the second half, people just fell off their game completely, lots of people just were very poor, played dumb plays, a few dubious calls thrown in but we basically just offered Saints chance after chance to attack our line and they in the end, made breaching it look very, very easy at times. Seeing Penny hauled off, well, I'm not saying he was good by any stretch tonight but the guy is being made an absolute scapegoat, and the bloke doing him no favours is his centre,

King - I thought Gidley killed him tonight, just showed him up. I'm starting to doubt what he's offering us. If he was sound defensively I'd excuse his poor attacking plays (like not feeding Penny 1st half), but he offers nothing with the ball and defends very, very badly. We'd be better off with a Stuart Littler type who you'd at least expect to do his duties.

I think Monaghan is getting a slightly rough deal from the speccies, he was hardly great, but when we had posession, I thought he did a pretty good job of providing the forwards with decent ball, ie little balls back on the inside etc. I thought he created enough doubt and his link with Briers early in the second half I thought actually looked okay. The last 30 minutes we were dominated so how can he influence the game.

I'm getting tired now, lets not just bag people, it's only one defeat, and lets discuss the game at length rather than just 'CRAP'.

One last one, great to see Bridge feature. Obviously still feeling his way back, I thought he looked tentative, and why wouldn't he be, but the withdrawl of V.Anderson gave Bridge his chance and it was great to see him back on a rugby field, lets hope that injury jinx is well and truly behind him now.

JWP, I'm not one to just go with the 'crap' summary, but I really can't find many positives from this game. We were further away from Saints tonight than for a good while.

There were many positives, Riley was excellent - that's it in tha backs.

Our forwards were very good, but despite being dominant in the first 40, we didn't score. You need good backs as well as forwards.
I thought Morley and Carvell were awesome, but they won't score tries.

I was annoyed last year with making too many mistakes, but at least by having a go we got some success. Tonight we scored a try which couldbe considered fortunate, and a very good try for a prop.

Where the hell are our world class backs?

It has to come down to a lack of match fitness and/or confidence. We seemed to just fall asleep after Rauhihi's try, and then conceded straight after.

I guess the easy answer is to churn out 'Hard for backs when the pack aren't dominating' and in the second half this is true. I would say that in the first half, we possibly didn't transfer our dominance onto the scoreboard and Saints with that amount of pressure, wouldn't have gone in just 8pts to the good, but massive credit to Saints defence for that.

I think our one 'genuine' world class back had a knee injury, I think he showed the importance of him, that bit of extra class, guile, nous, call it what you will, magic even. A flick pass that second earlier than Hicks would get it from Johnson makes all the difference, at times, I thought the only threat we had was Riley chiming into the line.

A positive for me, oddly this be, was Briers actually. I thought he looked fitter than I'd seen hm for years. He looked alert, ie, the tackle that got pulled for a knock on, he not only made the tackle, he was the bloke chasing after it and diving on it on the floor. (it wasn't a knock on for me either). He forced I think a dropout or two with clever kicks close to the line, and one or two other kicks pinned Saints in a corner if they got out like. I thought it was more like the old Briers, not the 2008 one, The old conjourer with magic at his fingertips & bootlaces. If we'd have kept the go forward, I fancied he'd have played a big part. I thought he was good.

Do you write novels?

In the first half JWP, we were dominant. We made 60m per set, and Saints sturggled to get out of their half, yet we didn't even look like scoring. Our backs never even looked like doing anything during this period.

No, I could though.

Somebody I was with said similar, He said something like "When we score, it always looks really difficult, like we've worked really hard for that. When they attack, the just glide and holes appear."

It's true, they make it look very, very easy at times.

I can understand you're frustration, but I think you're being too harsh. I was thinking that up until about sixty minutes in, you were looking very good. You outmuscled them playing reliable and basic stuff, no panic. You won't be the only team this year to let Saints slip away this year, because when they turn it on, not many can stop them. But I thought on the whole that you looked a robust and able outfit, and less of the chaotic inconsistency of previous seasons.

I'dlike to point out again.

6 tries to 2. This game was only close due to missed conversions.

In previous seasons we have pushed Saints much closer, so how do we suddenly look better than thos teams?

I'dlike to point out again.

6 tries to 2. This game was only close due to missed conversions.

In previous seasons we have pushed Saints much closer, so how do we suddenly look better than thos teams?

I think you may have a point there. I thought the team looked more methodical when attacking the Saints line, more willing to get to a kick and force a repeat set, as oppose to years gone by where you've felt every play was a 'must score play' with ball shifted left to right, then right to left etc.

You just seemed more solid. It was all down the middle, Bradford Bulls kind of stuff, but I thought it looked like a really composed, well-drilled unit for sixty minutes. In the past, you have run them close, but it always seemed like a frantic, backs to the wall, play your heart out kind of approach, which doesn't tend to work over a whole season. You just seemed so much more in control for sixty minutes than maybe in other games, and I remember thinking that you were looking very good.

I know it went wrong in the end, but Saints had to claw themselves ahead, and if you replicate that control in other games, I reckon you'll have a good year.

Yeah, I agree with that. Our structures looked beter, and we held the ball for longer which helped. However when it came down to it, our defence was as bad as ever(don't worry he'll sort that by dragging Pennyh off), and by playing a more conservative game, it unfortunately meant that we didn't get the benefits of the 'off the cuff' style of the last few years.

Not seen anything that's inspired me, put it that way.

Not even the bloke with the sign, who loved Steph ?

(If running on the pitch is a £1,000 fine, why didn't he buy her a ring or a necklace or something, and have them write out one of those little tags. Wouldn't 'Steph' have preferred that ?)

Lets have a sense of perspective.

This is round one, against the most consistent team in Super League over the past however many seasons, at their own ground.

It is hard for any team to go to Saints and win even with a clean bill of health, we had four internationals out (Gleeson, Reardon, Vinnie Anderson and Clarke) plus one of our best young players in Grix. No team was going to be able to win there in those circumstances.

The problem is some of our delusional fans were banging on about this being the season we beat St Helens, so now we will have the knee jerk reactions after one defeat.

I saw enough signs in tonights game to be fairly confident that we will be there or thereabouts at the end of the season, if we learn from our mistakes we will be contenders for the eight.

It happens every year Sally to be honest, the year we beat Saints may actually be the year we challenge!

However, I guess you could call it a knee jerk reaction, but with so little hype during pre-season, and all of this talk of doing things differently and so on, I thought the lads would go out and do their talking on the pitch and, for 40 minutes, they did, but then they just seemed to return to their old ways.


I said before, I won't make any real judgments on the side from tonight's result, it was deflating and gutting as every defeat is, but I'll be looking to be making better judgments after 5-10 games.

The only way is up, I guess...

Don't be so hard on your guys. They did it for 50 and then Saints clicked and gave it them back. I think Lowes drilled them well in the style of play that Bradford and Leeds (on a wet day) show. Well, that's all well and good but Saints are open rugby players (when they click). Driving up the middle isn't an answer to attacking open rugby (of the kind I like to see the Wolves play because it's so good to watch). Once we started swinging the ball around and actually passing it to players' hands rather than their chest and not dropping it, you had no answer, just as we have no answer to the drill down the middle then a kick which you gave to us in plenty for the first half. We have no kicking game and no answer to the kicking game and Wire kicked really well tonight and they drilled down the middle really well. Much better than us on both counts throughout the match. But we play expansive rugby really well and when we click we become very slippery.

I think you guys have plenty of positive stuff to take from tonight. I just hope this game doesn't have the negative effect on the way the team plays as it has done in recent times. I hope Lowes gets the men back up, puts it all into perspective - it really is just one game and the first one of the season at that - and keeps on building on what they did tonight because if that is what happens then I don't see why Wire can't be up there and in with as good a chance as anyone for the top spot.

I miss the old style of play though. That was far more exciting than the Bradford/Leeds drill up the middle and kick jobby. Oh well!

I love our fans! We are so negative! We are useless, nothing changes, no positives, slag the players off, rip the team apart, ignore the good stuff and focus on the bad. One game in and we are already suicidal - it's great!

For the first 50 minutes are so we were functional. The pack were fantastic, both with and without the ball. The game plan was obviously to keep it tight and make Saints work hard in defence. The half time stats showed Saints completion rate was down in the low 60%'s, ours was nearly 90%, 15/18 sets completed. Saints had made over 130 tackles, we had made less than 80. If anybody should have been blowing in the second stanza it was them. We were dominating the game without really looking dangerous.

However, this all seemed to go out of the window when Saints scored. We had 2 second row forwards playing at centre opposing each other, and Gilmour skinned Johnson with embarrasing ease. That's one positive, we know Johnson's got to be played in the pack in future. After Saints scored, the game plan seemed to go out of the window. Ill-discipline both in attack and defence lost us the game. We were very strong down the middle, however our fringe defence was poor in the second half and that's where we were found out.

Positives -

Riley - Superb effort again from the kid.

Penny - He runs the ball out well, his defence has greatly improved and his effort is no less than Riley's. The one player we have capable of scoring from distance (proven) and he never gets a pass. Unfortunately, he is Lowe's scapegoat. Disgrace to take him off and put Johnson on in his place at the end. These young kids should be the future of our club. Will blossom when Lowes leaves and we have a coach in situ who understands different people need to be handled in different ways.

Morley, Carvell, Wood, Rauhihi - If we can keep these four fit, the best set of props in the league. Great effort.

Higham - Quality signing

Westwood - Most improved player in SL over the past couple of seasons. Don't forget, he played right wing in the last game at Wilderspool



Harrison - Some big hits from the young lad and plenty of effort again

Negatives -

Half backs - Got to sort this out quickly. Total lack of cohesion and creativity. Created no go forward, this was all on the back of a great forward effort. As for the kicking game................. what kicking game?

Johnson - Back to the pack

Hicks - Gave the young Saints kid an easy debut. First time he got the ball he should have run straight at him - welcome to the big time kid! Instead, turned inside every time.

King - I'm still hoping he's settled in now and going to prove his worth. This is the first game of the season, but little seemed to have changed. Got to shape up or ship out. On a value for money basis, our worst performer.

The rest went OK.

I thought Saints would win by 14 so am not surprised we lost. I am disappointed we lost a 14-0 lead and conceded 6 tries in the last 30 odd minutes. The next 2 weeks will say more about our aspirations than today. Let's face it, on recent seasons form Catalans and Wakefield are more our level than Saints.

Positives - Riley was assured under pressure and had the confience to join the attacking line.

- Briers kicking game in the first half was good (he has no support whatsoever in this department)

- Westwood, non-stop work and a handful for the Saints defence all night.

- Rau made a fantastic impact when introduced.

- new signings went well.

Negatives - Monas - I want to believe he's going to come good but not I can't remember a scrum half having such a quiet game.

- King - get him on the wing with Bridge as his centre, it can't be any worse than the King-Penny partnership we've got at present.

- Johnson isn't a centre anymore - but a lack of gas isn't his fault, he's just getting on a bit and has had too many injuries. He'll do a great job for us in the back row.


We just couldn't maintain our intensity after going 14-0 up and Saints turned on the style big time - doesn't look like the ultra-quick play-the-balls are going to be phased out.

Now's not the time to be writing anyone off for the season. Hopefully we'll get a big response from the players next week.[/u

I am not too dissapointed about last night. I expected a defeat and for most of the game we dominated. Its a shame we could not do it for the whole game but they really turned it on once they got sniff.

Postives for me were.

Riley - been said all over this board but he looked good all game.

Higham - posed a real threat but tired later

Carvell - great go forward

Blythe - got through loads of work

Negatives

Monas - did he play?
King - what does he offer?

All in all was not a bad performance.

You also forgot to mention that we were playing against a team that are notorious slow starters and have been beaten quite a few times on the opening day of SL against average opposition, saints will only get better but how much better will we get as that backline apart from Riley looked toothless last night and our half backs were virtually non existent.

I dont know, Before Rah's try early in the second, the set of six Saints had that we kept them right down at their goal line was pretty impressive. Seeing as I havent seen a Wire team do that for some years (from memory) and the fact that it pretty much lead to a score was great.

To be honest I didnt think we would kick on in the second half. In a way I felt the half time hooter came at the wrong time for us and the ideal time for Saints. They got 15 mins or so to regroup and rethink their gameplan. We probably used that time to have a group orgasm about how well we had played. I just wanted us to come out that 2nd half as if the game was 0-0 and for the first 20mins or so, i thought that we did that superbly. Then we just seemed to make one mistake, then another and unlike we had done to Saints throughout the first period, got punished for them.

Its a shame because I had high hopes for that game, but its only the first game of the season and the more games we play the fitter the players will get and the longer they will last. I know they should have been able to last a full 80 from 2 weeks ago but at least they lasted as long as they did.

I think we should look at it as being a game where we gave Saints a hell of a fright for 60 odd minutes. When was the last time we made a team look like they weren't goign to score?