Basically we are guilty of the same thing that st Helen's used to be, and that is trying to play expansive rugby in bad conditions. Ultimately, this was the main reason why saints have lost so many grand finals, they just could not adapt to the conditions.

Bad weather is always a leveller, Widnes adapted better, but the main reason for the loss was we had no half backs on the pitch. You may get away with it at lower levels, but not in SL, wether you are playing Widnes London or whoever.

Time to get Gaz o Brien back, fast.

In our house we find it bizarre that we do pre-season training in hot weather climes when we spend much of our season playing in the cold and rain. Get them training up in the Scottish highlands, that'll sort 'em out

And we still regularly get the "it's always your year...." taunt thrown at us? Let's hope we can sort ourselves out and soon

Walking to the ground last night, I'd commented how a season of getting to the Challenge Cup SF and the Qualifying Semi-Finals and not winning the LLS, but finishing Top 3 would be deemed disappointing and how excited we would have been about that only five years ago.

We were talking about the same thing in the blue Bell after the game. Last night was purely and simply a one off exceptionally poor performance that none of us have seen for some time. We played the wrong tactics and when we did get round to using the right tactics we couldn't hold on to the ball. Three CC's a LLS, a Grand Final and 3 years in the top three says we are not a bad side.

Wire very poor Widnes played the conditions well we did not. However, the above is also all too true. I was amazed that Riley didn't go to full back to at least leave us one player with recent half-back experience in position. No halfbacks and no Hodgson chiming in robbed us of all direction, which just made the already shocking 53% completion rate in second half even less effective.