We can't afford to support 14 SL teams so move to 20 SL teams over 2 leagues? I'm baffled. Have I missed some extra revenue stream here?

Or is Gatcliffe trying to reduce "top tier Super League" so we get bigger dividends and just basically relegating 4 teams to a re-named Championship? But then why P&R as the gap would still be too big causing the same yo-yo effect as last time? Confused.

Aren't Castleford actually the best supported team in RL in terms of average crowds compared to the population of the town? Given that they don't have much of a catchment area due to the close proximity of so many other clubs they do well to sustain as they do.

As I said before, I use the "merger" term loosely because I don't actually advocate Whitehaven, Workington and possibly Barrow (although I think that might be too far away from the other two towns) actually sacrificing their own identities completely. I don't think they're ever likely to get into Super League in their own right though, and surely the people there would get behind a Cumbrian franchise if it could bring top flight rugby back to the region.

Yes, that might mean the existing clubs accepting demotion to Conference level and a more "junior" status, but that in itself would provide a platform for players to look to represent their home town as youngters before progressing to Super League level with their county if they're good enough, rather than have to leave Cumbria altogether as they do now.

Currently if either Whitehaven or Workington were to get to SL (which could only happen via a return to P&R and a big improvement for either club on the pitch) then obviously only their own supporters would go and watch them. Given that all those factors are quite unlikely to come together any time soon though, I'm sure the people there might be open to uniting behind one "neutral" Cumbrian club at Super League level and their historic club at amateur level rather than plodding around the lower reaches and watching SL on telly as they do now.

On saying all that though, I do acknowledge SEB's points as being fairly difficult to argue with!

The difficulty with any cumbrian team is where do they play. A rotating schedule of grounds never works and would require 3 SL standard grounds in Cumbria.

Basing them in any one Cumbrian town defacto makes that town the SL side and the rest of Cumbria would not get a look in.

So there can be no joint venture unless they play in a completely different town to the 3 current pro/semipro sides.

If there was a joint Saints/ Wire team that played every game in St Helens, it could be called the Cheshire team, but in the end how many Warrington fans would follow that, rather than follow the Wire team and want them to gain promotion back to the top league in their own right.

Everyone outside can see the sense in a merger, or a grouping of talent, but sport is more than just the best financial deal. It's about tribal followings.

Cumbria could never work with a single team. Barrow / Workington and Whitehaven supporters wouldn't accept it - just in the same way as the mergers at the start opf SL didn't proceed.

2 leagues of 10 ? Not for me. 1 league of 14 is too much.

I do worry for the sport as the finances as so perilous - and whether we like it or not Sky have been a saviour. The problem is that many clubs have wasted the money.

I appreciate that sports teams are different to normal businesses but they should at least try to break even - with or without a benefactor.

Warrington have to be very thankful for Simon Moran and to the council for their support, but the club is at least trying to make it's assets work for it 24/7.
Not many other clubs are doing that.
Leeds are one of the few others

So at last we agree then SEB. We should give up on the failed London SL team as they don't satisfy the requirements either?



I notice that crowd is 25% higher than a recent Wales vs England international held in Wales....



Whereas Wales is an urban metropolis by comparison.


Basically what I am pointing out SEB is that your arguments against Cumbria could be used against London and Welsh SL viability. I'd say give Cumbria another go. It was 16 years ago they last had a chance. London has had since 1980. Wales blew it.

Wales could have worked if it'd been given more time to build in the lower divisions, London will never have proper crowds (although they do come up with half-decent players occasionally), and I believe Cumbria (preferably Barrow) would work if given a chance.