In a word, expansion.
I think RLW reported there are now more kids playing RL in the South East than in the Leeds area.

Feltham, Staines, Hemel, Oxford and Skolars are slowly feeding into the Broncos team. That's unlikely if we're in the Championship. And the kids are unlikely to move to a club up north.

I would like to see a 3rd team outside the M62 corridor represented in the SL in the next 10 years. It would certainly give more of an argument to 'it is a northern game' isn't it?

I just hope no one takes yesterday's attendance as a standard. I've heard elsewhere it's the lowest ever, which is probably understandable given current circumstances (the team's performances this season, the Olympics, holidays etc).

Might also be worth pointing out that no London team has finished in the relegation spot in SL.

sorry, what do you mean ?

If London RL only averaged 500 speccys in SL home games, there would still be a 'positive spin' about them.
They are 'irrelevant'......END OF.

London's average attendance this season will be something like 2,800. Ours will be around 5,600. So, after just 30 years, they've already managed to achieve an average attendance that is around half of the figure we've taken 130 years to achieve.

There may be clubs out there whose fans can criticise London's attendances. We aren't one of them.

I always find it amusing that people who would no doubt call themselves traditionalists, and who claim to support promotion and relegation (as I do myself), want to throw a club out of the league because their crowds aren't high enough.

As much as I'd like to have a pop at London myself... I still see a reason to have them in SL despite the attendances. Just having a presence away from the heartlands I believe is important for one... but mainly... They have a very good development programme in the South. They have a good presence in a number of schools... so as long as they are in some schools and occupying some kids minds away from Union... I see a reason to keep them in. The public may not have a huge interest down there... but I've often thought they should occupy an area of London and use that name rather than use the whole city of London in the title... as it could increase attendances.

And for what it's worth.... I'd get rid of Catalans any day of the week before I'd get rid of London.

Your 5600 average attendance figure is definitely up for argument. The attendances figures this year have been totally miscounted, with numerous corrections subtracted from the attendances first given. I find it hilarious the ijit's actually believe they've won more support than lost since the move to Barton. If there is an increase in attendances this year it totally through the vast followings of away support.

Why get rid of Catalans?
They seem to have more French in their squad than the average NW based team have English and the game is very popular in that region of France.

Of all the new franchise teams I'd suggest that Catalans are the most succesful by some margin and more than pay their way.

The short answer to this thread is, because we have an SL licence and a wealthy (and long suffering) chairman who is prepared to fund our losses every year (at least for now).

As for why we have an SL licence, because we play at a reasonable ground, and have development programmes that mean we've gone from the team full of Aussies that I started supporting to a team with quite a lot of southerners in it.
Let's face it we didn't get the licence based on our crowds.

Something I've been banging on about for ages. Calling ourselves 'London' is a bit like you calling yourselves 'Greater Manchester' and thinking that people from Stockport and Bury etc. will identify with the club.

At last, someone who understands that nomenclature has nothing to do with growing crowds. Salford and London have lots in common around the demographics that we operate in - i.e. surrounded by rich and successful premiership football teams plus top flight rugby teams (in our case RL in the shape of Wigan, Saints and Wire and one RU club and in London's case RU with Quins, London Irish, Wasps etc.) having first call on crowds sitting on our doorsteps. It's easy for fans of Wigan, Wire etc. to throw stones at us about crowds but none of them ever reply with a solution to growing crowds when facts are presented to them. In fact, if they were that bothered about our crowds in particular, then they should pop down to Barton and watch us too!

Also, it's ironic that folk suggest that you should retreat from the London name and stick to a certain town/area to grow crowds and then suggest the polar opposite for us!!

I'm glad someone else has picked up on this. Personally I think renaming yourselves would be a disaster. Vague geographic identities don't generally wash with the public.

Now here it gets a bit more complicated. London is not quite the union hotbed you may think. Of the existing top flight 'London' RU teams, only one actually plays inside the Greater London Authority (GLA) area, namely Harlequins. Looking at the others...
Saracens have played at Watford for 15 years. Watford isn't London, even if it is inside the M25. Now granted they are about to move to Copthall (inside the GLA), but then again their average gate is about the same as your own.
'London' Wasps play at High Wycombe, 12 miles outside the M25 and 32 miles from the city of London.
'London' Irish play at Reading, 19 miles outside the M25 and 39 miles from the city. Think about that one for a second, 39 miles is probably most of your away games with the exception of Hull.
And the newly promoted 'London' Welsh will be playing (I kid you not) at Oxford, 50 miles from the city. And bear in mind all these distances are 'as the crow flies', which is fine if you're a crow, not so much help in a car or on the train.
So if RU clubs can't cut it in London, you do start to wonder if the the Broncos gates are crap because we couldn't organise a p***-up in a brewery, or if London just isn't intersted in rugby of any kind.

Never a truer word said. It takes me one-and-a-half to two hours [ueach way[/u to get to a home game. I don't think they realise how lucky they are to have you so close by.

Because they are not British... Don't belong in my opinion... never have... never will. London bring more to the British game than Catalans do and I only care about the British game... not the French game. They take up a place I'd much sooner see occupied by another British team. Different country should have a different competition.

They do have a competition. The problem is it's subpar.

I know they do... and I know it's sub par... but personally I don't care. French teams should be in a French competition... Subpar or not. SL is subpar in comparison to the NRL... it happens... Scots Premier is sub par to the Premier League... and there has always been resistance to bring in one of the top Glasgow clubs to the English competition... why ?... because they don't belong in it.

There was a hope that having Catalans in SL it would have an impact on the French national team, but it hasn't really. They are still poor and always will be. People seem only too keen to give up on the London 'experiment'... but very quick to defend the French one... and I'm not sure why... oh I know... weekend booze-ups abroad.

The competition is actually called the European Super League.

If we (England/GB) ever want some valid international competition in this hemisphere we can't sit around and just wait for the French comp to improve. Without valid international competition the game will continue to struggle for press coverage and keep losing players to union. Unfortunately, not all players are like Paul Newlove and some may wish to have some variety in their career beyond the M62.

Super League was supposed to improve the GB/England team but it hasn't so should we scrap Super League,

Thanks for that, I'd not realised just how far away from you all those RU clubs are (apart from Quins of course who I incorrectly said were on your doorstep when in fact they're in your house with their feet up on the sofa!).



This bit resonates actually, I think that's partly true of Salford as a club for the former and Manchester folk generally for the latter and links plays into a much longer rant/thread I posted on the VT last week under the 'Salford going into Administration...' nonsense.

I know it is... and I always thought it was a stupid idea to call it that to accommodate one team.

The International competition will never compete with Union... not in our lifetime... and probably not that of any generation in the near future... Personally I gave up on it years ago... especially when the powers that be decided to get rid of the 'Great Britain' tag which I believe was our sports International identity in this country... and one the press were more familiar with than that of 'England RL'... which has always felt weaker to some tune.

I'd sooner the sport of rugby league just draw a line under it all and settle for what we have. The sport hasn't got any stronger nationally for me since I started watching it 30 years ago... In fact... despite all the efforts... apart from the SKY coverage it seems to have lost reputation and got weaker. Concentrate all the efforts into making our sport stronger nationally at all levels... and forget about the French... Let them concentrate on sorting themselves out... Lets face it... The international game has not got any stronger since the Dragons appeared in SL... and won't either.

Even if it was a huge success... we would still only have one country to compete with... England v France... every year... big wow.

Given that Broncos rent the ground, technically we're in Quins house, and I don't think we're allowed to put our feet on the sofa.
How I wish they were round the corner from my own house, like I said, two hours each way for a home game.

Perry,
I think I should tell you that coming on here and informing folk of rugby union sides playing at stadia not belonging to them could be met with some resistance.


I am led to believe union is the nemesis of rugby league and we are all doomed.


Interesting that the owner of a rugby league club,who doesn't seem to get criticised by his clubs supporters despite playing second fiddle to the soccer club who share their stadium,wants Oxford United,where he is chairman,to purchase the Oxford stadium for both his soccer club club and the union side London Welsh.
Some of the union clubs do carry some debt without the situation we find in league.
[url=http://www.swintonlionsrlc.co.uk/component/k2/item/271-club-statement.htThis today from a nearby club[/url
If Mr Hughes is to retire from his position at the end of next season,is there a replacement in place ?

Only if folk completely misunderstand the point. I don't care whether they own the ground or not, the point I was making is that most 'London' RU clubs don't play anywhere near the place.

To be honest most RU clubs are reliant on wealthy individuals as well. But lets have perspective here, there are plenty of RU clubs that have run into bother in the past. It's not unique to RL.

No replacement, no plan, no clue.

I couldn't agree more re the GB thing, Ideally have a mid season five nations competition and then pick the best for the GB squad at the end of the season for an annual tri nations (maybe play a similar thing with the south sea islanders and pick the best combined team to make it a four nations team).

As for the Catalans I would suspect they create a much bigger income for SL than London do (and shamefully Salford) so I'd certainly not deprive them of a place in SL. There are many fine French players turning out for Catalans who would be lost to French RU if it wasn't for the increased profile of RL created by Catalans. We can't expect the French national team to improve when they get a game here and a game there, them being involved in a proper series like the five nations I mention above would certainly provide them with this.

I would personally like to see the RL more involved with any London team as lately it has been proved that there are many fine RL players waiting to be discovered in the South East and this would never happen without a full time professional team based in the area.

Personally again I'd like to see a fully professional team based in South Wales with significant assistance being provided by the RFL/WRFL as without doubt there are huge numbers of extremely talented rugby players and other athletes throughout Wales That the SL franchise was left in the hands of out and out schysters was a travesty, funny that Bradford potentially get bought out yet the North Wales team were allowed to die at the last minute.

When I talk about assistance being offered to a Welsh team I mean in regards promotion, getting into local schools to identify talent and also initially with the running of the operation to ensure things are being run in a correct and proper manner. Doing this offers RL a chance to expand in a healthy way rather than a hap hazard way as has previously been the case.

I'd also potentially look at a SL franchise in Dublin as for me this would be a gold mine not only in playing talent but also in generating capital. Ireland is obviously not doing so well financially so you'd think that the prospect of a large number of visiting fans every other week throughout the summer months would be enticing to the people of Dublin and also the Government (who I'd think would back any SL franchise for just this reason). The lack of playing talent in Europe I grant you is an issue but one I'd think could be addressed by the powers that be.

What do you mean 'what do you mean'? About the relegation spot thing? I've seen a lot of people comment about how London shouldn't be in this league compared to 'Fax, Leigh, Fev etc. But in all the years of Super League London have never been relegated, and have been granted a license twice. So it's not like they've come bottom every single season and aren't playing to a standard to beat other teams.

If you mean the attendances, then the Salford crowd was much lower than others. Even a soggy Maundy Thursday evening match against Catalans had more spectators. So clearly there are other reasons (as I said before, continual poor performance, summer holidays, Olympics etc) for why this is such a low figure. 2,800 average is probably about fair, and currently I think that's up on the 2011 average attendance. Not the 10k you'd like to see but still.