Swinton fans should be wary of any interest that Dr Koukash takes in them . He's been on the ground long enough now to see how shriveled RL's roots have become in the area and i think he's probably come to the conclusion there's room for only one pro RL team in the vicinity. He must have noticed how fractured and weak Salford's support is and with a real businessman's mentality wants to make the Reds the only choice for RL fans . Swinton might not get many spectators but many in Swinton who don't go would still see the Lions as THE local team , not even consider supporting the Reds and therefore diminish the Red's already iffy potential fan base. The Lions will seem like an anachronistic irritant to him that need to be taken over, absorbed and their separate identity packed off to the history books asap.
The council would run with this and let the Lions go for their aim right from its inception has been to promote all things Salford first even if this is at the expense of any previous local traditions. Swinton's name and history are synonymous with a pre Salford City Council world and expendable if not downright obstructive. Koukash and the Council will be at one on this. Anything said otherwise is just window dressing.

I have read your views carefully but cannot agree. I see some holes in the logic.

If Swintonians feel that the Lions are "THE local team" and so will not go to support Salford, how would a (business) destruction of Swinton increase Salford's figures? They will either stay away from any RL games or support Wigan etc.

Salford Council are not the rich source of funds they were once: they have to make priorities with an ever-decreasing supply of money. They "got into bed" with Peel to establish a stadium as they could not afford to go alone.I believe this has resulted in a solution that has not answered all our needs. However, it was a business decision and, I feel, very unlikely there is political agendum here. In fact I am sure a diversion of attractions, away from the area that boundaries with Manchester, would be politically more attractive. Some of Salford's attractions are being "adopted" by Manchester.

As much as I enjoy you coming on here every few weeks lecturing us about how 'we' could have done whatever, I'm sure if you asked around you could get contact details for John Wilkinson, for whom your excellent input may have some actual relevance. Ta.

I'm sorry if I appear to be "lecturing" anyone and also if the points raised generally cover the same subject matter.

However, in my defence I don't think it's fair to rewrite history by referring to new and old regimes as others on here have said in a previous discussions. Lay the blame for your collective pre MK plight on John Willinson and his cohorts if you like, that is your business. What I can't agree with is that you, as a club having played the hand that you had at the time still seem disatisfied with your lot now that you are playing with a new deck, or am I missing something? Gift Horse and Mouth spring to mind.

Not only that, but, quite a few on here seem willing to advise your neighhbours on survival tactics, what grants are available to develope agecroft (is it in Swinton I know it's nearer than Barton but post Codes can misrepresent) how they could share with Salford FC that would make good business sense and whether it would do them any good for your owner to buy them to be your feeder club, why would he want to buy them they don't even have a boundary with Manchester...Don't you think that it's all a bit odd?

Just musing not lecturing BTW

I dont understand the point you're trying to make with your final paragraph? As it is I who has raised the issues you discuss, maybe if you expand a little I could answer.

As someone who lived at t'Heights for 30+ years, it's not near Barton.

As someone who enjoys the logic of dialectic exposition: please explain "What I can't agree with is that you, as a club having played the hand that you had at the time still seem disatisfied with your lot now that you are playing with a new deck, or am I missing something? Gift Horse and Mouth spring to mind."
err ... what lot?

I must admit I agree with others on here in that I can't really understand what your point is.


Are you saying we should just accept our lot? Assuming that's the case, you're conflating John Wilkinson ("the club" if you like) on the one hand with the fans on the other. Circumstances beyond John Wilkinson's control meant he had to play "the hand he was dealt" as best he could. As a result, we ended up with a stadium that, although it looks bright and shiny, isn't particularly well designed. The best sight line from the South Stand, for example, is directly into the ladies toilet. We, the fans, didn't play that hand. We didn't have a hand to play. We weren't at the table. We're dissatisfied with part of our lot - the stadium - and I see no reason why we shouldn't express that dissatisfaction.


This paragraph seems to be just chin music. I [ithink[/i what you're saying is that we shouldn't be advising Swinton on how to survive, which is OK because I don't think anyone has. The Swinton club has identified a piece of land it would like to build a community stadium on. The City of Salford did, for a time, seem keen on the idea, but that seems to have faded recently. I suggested that the City wouldn't be interested in building a stadium now, and that if Marwan did buy the club (Swinton) I think he'd move them into the SCS (it's only AJB when your club gets money for calling it that). Someone then suggested that the community stadium might be a goer because of other benefits it brings to the City. I can't see anyone advising Swinton on survival tactics there. We don't go round randomly advising clubs on what they should do to survive. Well, most of us don't, anyway.


OK

Yeah, we're not the club mate, we're just fans. I think that's where you may be going wrong. You can speak to Koukash on Twitter though - maybe try that. Red League's on there too.

Where is t'Heights, or do you mean that you used to live at th'Height, or on th'Height? Either way, I hope you fully enjoyed the "logic of dialectic exposition", whatever that is, prior to your trek to the hills from the environs of Bolton Road.

I think you need to re read the section of my post about the relative locations of Agecroft and Barton, or perhaps I was a little bit shabby with my 'dialectic expostioning'? My point was, is Agecroft IN Swinton, even if it isn't I think Agecroft is nearer TO Swinton than Barton, perhaps t'Heights is, but, I know that th'Height isn't and Agecroft is near the latter.

The "lot" I refer to is your statement that bemoans the fact that although you as a club contributed nothing, Salford City Council and their bedfellows Peel Holdings (makes it sound a bit tawdry, was that your reasoning?) somehow managed to deliver "a solution that has not answered all our needs"

I took this to mean that you weren't quite happy with your lot? I asked for clarification, "am I missing something" if I am wrong I wholeheartedly apologise

RED LEAGUE thanks a bunch for lumping me with him. I don't 'do' twitter mind you doesn't RL say that? and I have certainly no interest in twittering with Marwan Koukash should I ever get 'twittered up'

I know that you are 'only' fans mate and not necessarily policy makers at the Club. I'm 'only' a fan also, all be it of another Club, may be that's where I'm going wrong?

I suppose I'm interested in the plight of the game as a whole and you guys are an interesting, given your recent situation, was it only a year ago? Where you are now and where you could be potentially should the team be successful and how attitudes change from some fans towards others less fortunate in this case Swinton

Red John apologies for "conflating" guilty as charged. For someone that didn't "really understand what your point is" you broke it down and responded particularly well once you had the measure of my conflating.

I agree that your stadium isn't well designed, despite having the luxury of being in the big stand for each of my visits and accept that you the fans might have a case for being dissatisfied. The three 'small' stands don't look great, but, I know that there was a Phase Two project lurking and surely the site lines to the ladies toilets can be sorted out, but, beyond that, what was your (the clubs) alternative, remaining at The Willows with its adequately screened lavatories obviously wasn't?

BTW when do the fans ever play the hand

Sorry for conflating again enjoy your 2014 season, when we next play I will make my way from The Jules Verne to the South Stand

jeez , the jules verne ;0) , what decade of the 20th century are you in ??? dont waste your hard earned in there , gerrin st mikes for a proper pint

That guy on Twitter IS NOT ME you clowns, my name isn't Mike it's Jonathan none of you know me and never will know me, I've had a pm off a lad on here who knows the guy on twitter basically telling me to stop portraying myself as the lad on twitter, I've told him and I'm telling you lot I'm not im a different person, I admit I look on twitter and continue on here whats being discussed on there but that's it, if I was that guy I'd amit it what difference is it going to make to my life if people know my real name? I'm on the Salford facebook page too yet nobody has managed to point me out on there.

I can't decide who's barmier, The Big Panjandrum or Uncle Rico.

Cheers for the answer: the dialectic needs responses!


Irlams o' th' Height is the part of Salford closest to Pendlebury and Swinton. For reasons I cannot fathom, when I lived there (infant to "adult"icon_wink.gif, it was often referred to as (phonetically) theights. Agecroft's a stone throw from the said hamlet. In fact my first "local" was the Britannia where I drank with miners from Agecroft colliery. The Brit and the Pack Horse are now under the huge roundabout where the A6, A666, and the A580 meet. Next to it is St John's where Geoff Bent (United) and Jim Valentine (Swinton) are buried.
Therefore I know where Agecroft is. It's not near Barton.

I feel we have the right to be critical as Barton has its faults. It's probably easier to access from Warrington than most of Salford! At the same time, we are grateful for the saving of Salford: very largely the good Doctor but also the stadium.
Grumbling is part of human nature.

Hey Jonathan, can you whack this pm on here for us to see? I'm sure the sender won't mind if it means an end to poor old Michael being wrongly portrayed on an internet forum he's never heard of. It will be good to finally put an end to this saga.

Not on Twitter but got a hashtag for your sig. Something very fishy about all this. Very fishy.

Indeed. Staying at the Willows was never really an option as it was pretty much landlocked and so couldn't be redeveloped economically. As "Framing the Future" required shiny new stadia, the pressure was on to build something new. The only site that could be found was one that was difficult to get to from anywhere within Salford, and, as someone else has pointed out, is possibly more accessible to Warrington fans than Salford fans. Initially, we were promised a futuristic stadium with the best sight lines possible, carpeted terracing, a mini-bar next to every seat, chauffeur driven limos to ferry fans around, the ability to pause live action on the pitch, etc. Unfortunately, the financial crash put paid to all that and we ended up with a generic Legoland build. I actually don't mind the stadium, and, in terms of most of the facilities it offers, it's a big improvement on The Willows, but the main facility I want is a decent view and the standing areas don't really offer that at the moment. Hence the disappointment. Maybe phase 2 (if it ever happens) will improve things.

So, there you have it. The club was dealt a poor hand and it's hard to see how it could have played it any differently. The fans never had a hand to play.

Firstly I'd say over 100 years of contributing to something isn't contributing nothing! Tell me, what is your knowledge of how Salford came to play at Barton and how Salford as a 'club' did not contribute?

Deal red fusilier, you will recognise me in my 1970's garb ha ha

Cheers Hillbilly I know exactly where The Brit is, wasn't it a Wilson's pub back in the day? Holt's is my favouite so The Waggon, Wellie and Red Lion were hard to leave in favour of a trip over the road or indeed to the Dog and Partridge I rarely nicked in there for a pint of draught Bass and that was handier.

Grumbling's OK BTW can't see you guys doing much of itr next season

Hang on a minute Black Cat, this forum seems to want it's cake and eat it? Any problems pre Koukash was the old regime nowt to do with whats going on now seems to be the message.

Yet you seem to be saying that the club's contribution is based on the fact that it has history on its side. Does it have any more history than say Swinton and by merely being around to be moved to a shiney new ground isn't really a contribution is it?

My point about the club's contribution, or lack of it, was of course aimed at the financial aspect of your move to Barton.,The City Council and Peel appear to have funded it and whilst I'm not sure about my facts I don't think the club's purse was open at the time, not to mention the business plan with 8,000 through the door every other week not really happening and is there still some back rent due may be from the 'old club'?

Great work

Then you should do some more research, start with Red City Developments.

Thanks for your input again Uncle Rico, smashing stuff. As I've suggested to a previous poster on this topic, your issue appears to be with UK companies law. Perhaps contacting your MP might be the thing to do if you have any concerns?