Money + being well run = success. Fail to have either one of those and you are in trouble. We don't have money so we need to be well run which we are not. Surely you can see that some element of bad leadership is hindering us further than the difficult money situation?

Leeds had plenty of money for years and years in the 70s, 80s and 90s and won frig all. Along comes Hetherington with some sound ideas and a plan (imagine that) for improving things and hey presto.

And are you seriously saying that the likes of Wakefield and Castleford have that much more cash than we do that enables them to get to the play-offs, cup sembo's and generally be far more competitive than us??

Wigan Noble failure Mcguire Success "same resourses"
Warrington Cullen failure Smith success "same resourses"
Catalan Walters failure Robinson success "same resourses"

I disagree,we haven't the resources or more specifically the income through the gates & season tickets, than many other clubs but we have been just awarded a new license for three years and we should give the club credit.

A club can be well run but without being successful on the park,once you are successful the income streams improve,the fan base improves and everything follows on.

Well no, I don't see any such things. I have no idea well/badly managed we are. I just tip up on matchdays and watch the match. You may know a great deal more about the remuneration, legalities, projects, opportunities, limitations, support, resistance that the club operates in but I'm just a casual supporter.
Hopefully Matt (a person with insight) can shed more light on our shortcomings and fix them (cheaply!).

I wonder though, what fans of the following, at various stages of the SL era, would have given for a club run as badly as ours?

Wakefield
Widnes
PSG
Sheffield
Huddersfield
Hull
Gateshead
London
Workington
Oldham
Leigh
Halifax

All operating on a full salary cap, I believe?

Can a club be considered well run when:

- Crowds have failed to increase over a period when the overall league's average crowd has almost doubled?
- Websites have been left out of date for long periods?
- It constantly has issues over availability and quality of merchandise (income stream)?
- Customers regularly complain about not having phones answered, messages replied to or emails replied to?
- It can't (be d to?)organise or carry out minutes silences?
- It produces a season ticket/membership offering and promotional material that results in pages of people trying to work out what it actually costs?
- Keeps coaches in place well beyond their useful life?
- Signs unfit/injured players?
- Relies on players going to different gyms in different places to do gym work?

That's off the top of me head - I'm sure theres more. Most of those are not money/cost issues - just issues with being more professional and changing how things are done.

But they were in the same boat with failures, whats the relavance of their salary cap ? they were s*it, now they are good !

Clue.... It's the people within the organisation

I didn't go to the trouble of reading it, because I have a girlfriend, but didn't the club publish our last franchise application?
I guess that (or the latest one) would be our measure of success.

Can you list all of these Organisational changes? Because it kinda looks like you're just highlighting the benefits of a new head coach.

Well ill happily swap shoes with Huddersfield & Hull wouldn't you?

The thing is Salford have been happy over years just to plod on and not make any progress look at KR getting promoted a few seasons back and are now fighting for play offs, Castleford (on field), Huddersfield etc they have all come on massively over the past few seasons and then look at where we are.

We have finished in the playoffs once and as parish said its not good enough. Don't give me all this bull about not being spending the full salary cap I fully accept we don't operate on the full amount but neither do Castleford, and surely KR didn't when they first came up (they probably still don't) and look the progress between them and it is huge.

For years and years we have been told lie after lie by the club with regards to signings,stadium, etc and its has done nothing but upset and disappoint fans and you can not blame them for wanting change.

I know for a fact (and now I cant say how) that two of those players did NOT undergo medicals before they signed if anyone finds that acceptable then that's your choice. Simms is a waste of space yes he may care about the club as Wilky says but ffs I Love the club but that doesn't give me the right to get a job with the club, so why should it with Simms?

I accept that there are issues that the club needs to address but my point was that despite all the problems that we have, many you have listed in your post, we have still survived in Superleague in the recent licence round, so we must be doing something right.

We only survived because we have a shiny new stadium and the only other tentative link is that we are the only club in the Salford/Manchester area.
Come the next round of franchises if we are still at the bottom with low crowds then we will be out.

You did read the franchise application then? And our competitiors?

I would like to see;

- Salford McRae failure Parish success "same resourses" -

added to that list too though.

My concern is that most people on here seem to be saying MP can't improve on what SMc did without more money?

And so you're happy to dismiss any genuine concerns about the running of the club as meaningless, pointless rambling just because we're not winning?

I remember a thread quite a few months ago where one of the club 'loyalists', can't remember who, had a go at people for out and out ranting (which is fair enough to be honest) and bracketing anyone else with genuine concerns in the same bubble. I posted a fair response with some genuine concerns, no ranting involved and admitting I wouldn't know the solution. Strangely enough it got ignored...

That's one of the biggest problems the club has got. There are far too many who are happy to slag the club off at every opportunity and, in turn, too many people happy to blindly defend everything that happens and dismiss those with genuine concerns as the same as the previous mentioned group.

I don't think it's the case that people blindly defend he Club, they just see things a little more realistically instead of going with their emotional responses. We all sing off the same hymn sheet, we all support our Club. SalfordExUni has a valid point with regards to success and failure. A good two thirds of forum posters disappear when we win games. They are disturbingly absent when something positive happens at the Club, and very rarely offer anything mentally stimulating about anything (Unless you count bloody awful spelling and what appears to be people using keyboards with only 14 keys on them as stimulating.)

What worries me though, is when they do appear they do more harm than good. The only time Mr Barker trawls through our forum is when negativity abounds, which ends up in the local rag, which gets picked-up by National Media. Before you know it, you get more people ranting about something or other and a vicious circle ensues.

If Salford were even marginally more successful, half the posts on here would not exist.

All this nit-picking over things most of us have very very little full knowledge of is probably doing more harm than good.

Ignoring the rest of your post as being irrelevant; there wouldn't be the need for any forum under that pretence.

Could you please elaborate on those who have a more realistic insight as to those who show emotion? Considering you must have more than 26 keys it shouldn't be a problem. Realism, truths and facts have been posted on here albeit with a greater emotion as to those who do actually blindlessly defend the club. I'm confused whether you believe that someone who has been more privvy to information than yourself and others are solely posting high on emotion?

Can anyone point in the direction of a quote from MP where he states he was misled as to the money he'd have to spend, or where he has said that we are in the situation we're in because of a lack of money? In fact, from the BBC article: ""It's not just all about finances." He has specifically commented on: * resistance to change (BBC/MEN) * consistent behaviours throughout the Club (BBC) * working environment (BBC) * perceived or actual lies from the Club (BBC) * being misled about strength in depth / size of squad (Sporting Life) * previous lack of development at the Club / poor recruitment process (Sporting Life) * being kept in the dark (Sporting Life) * poor youth development structures (MEN) Sources news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 575895.stm www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480 menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... lford-reds Now, since he quite clearly has been identifying systemic cultural problems at the Club can we put this bowlacks about us being crap because we can't spend as much as others to bed and start concentrating on the reality? We're being held back by incompetance and lack of ambition far more than we're being held back by a lack of money. Wake up and smell the ing coffee folks.

Can anyone point in the direction of a quote from MP where he states he was misled as to the money he'd have to spend, or where he has said that we are in the situation we're in because of a lack of money? In fact, from the BBC article: ""It's not just all about finances." He has specifically commented on: * resistance to change (BBC/MEN) * consistent behaviours throughout the Club (BBC) * working environment (BBC) * perceived or actual lies from the Club (BBC) * being misled about strength in depth / size of squad (Sporting Life) * previous lack of development at the Club / poor recruitment process (Sporting Life) * being kept in the dark (Sporting Life) * poor youth development structures (MEN) Sources news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 575895.stm www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... ml&BID=480 menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... lford-reds Now, since he quite clearly has been identifying systemic cultural problems at the Club can we put this bowlacks about us being crap because we can't spend as much as others to bed and start concentrating on the reality? We're being held back by incompetance and lack of ambition far more than we're being held back by a lack of money. Wake up and smell the ing coffee folks.

Well, I've just had my tea and I really can't be bothered.

Is that unemotional enough?

I was making a point about negativity and how it can have further reaching connotations. Thanks for ignoring it, GT is quite right with regards to threads being ignored or strategically nit-picked from both sides. I could ramble on or make another point valid or not, but people see what they want to see and rarely change opinion, and like I said I can't be bothered.

Ex salford uni is a tit.

and yes ive had a beer pm me if u arnt happy

Your a tit too.

Your and him are a right pair

I genuinely would like to meet Michigan Red, Fatboys Limb, exsalford uni and The Butcher to talk about Salford RLFC as their opinions differ so much from mine it would be refreshing to hear what they have to say about the club. I know ex salford uni has been to uni and has got a bird so he might be too important to speak to but if any of the rest fancy a beer or chat at Saints give me a shout.

If you speak to my secretary she'll see if I have an opening



Always happy to speak to intelligent people who you can have a sensible conversation with, to be fair this is the type of thing the club should be encouraging as with limited resources I see it as a way for people with a real passion for the club can maybe find that brainwave that could really help the club.

All this bickering has become senseless, confusing and pointless.
I'm struggling to understand certain contributors standpoint here.
There is no doubt that there are quite a number of intelligent folk who post on here regularly, but instead of decent and relevant conversation, the majority of threads seem to descend into "[imy opinion is more valid and and important than yours[/i"


I certainly don't have the answer to the questions we all seem to be asking, but I'm pretty certain that running an organisation the size of Salford RLFC is a tad more difficult than some seem to think.
Magic Wands just do not exist, and if anyone does have the answer/answers to the clubs problems, please step forward now.
Thankfully McRae has gone. He made a real mess of things and left behind a quagmire of a team.
? Don't we all agree that we now have a man at the helm who appears to know which direction we should be heading, and how to go about putting things right ? Ultimately, MP may not be the messiah we are all looking for, but for now I'm happy to see what he comes up with.
As for the blatant bickering, you can carry on as long as you want, but it'll have no effect whatsoever on the clubs strategy and direction. For once, it'd just be really satisfying to see the majority of forum contributors agree on one or two matters instead of swiping at each other.
"Keep the faith" as [iSmithy[/i says