think Dr. Quickcash should 'lay low' in regards to the press for now.
His comments have got boring now.
Good luck to Salford, it's not their fault the new owner is 'outspoken/loves the media spotlight'.

Agree on all points.

McGuire changed the system f play. 3 in the tackle with the 3rd coming in late and laying on ensuring the defensive line was set before they each got up.

Exactly

I think it would be very naive to think that McGuires impact at Wigan was not due to a multitude of changes he made.

On the subject of conditioning I don't think Salford have looked right in this area for 7 years now. It shows when we can't defend near our our line or when we defend repeat sets. Furthermore most of our forwards aren't making enough ground hitting the ball up. How many times do you see our players really struggling to get back in the defensive line after our opponents make a break? Another thing I noticed Friday was the number of times we had the ball and our players were bunched in a small area of the pitch getting their breath back.

It's both a strength and stamina issue for me.

An uncertain pre-season put paid to any chance of having a super-fit side for the start of the season. Can't play catch-up with fitness so will have to wait until the next pre-season, with new coach, to see how this area changes.

It's not just this season though it's been no different for a few years now. Furthermore I don't fully accept this excuse, despite the clubs problems the players could still workout in a local gym and hit the pavements or local park. Not being funny but they would have you believe they couldn't do any training at all between November and February.

Surely as professional sportsmen it's up to the individual to work around the training facilities issue and ensure under the guidance of the clubs conditioner that he is in best condition possible. They needed some Rocky Balboa spirit!

I must disagree with you both - no surprise you follow other clubs.One which cannot manage money and the other where the chairman spends all the money;the team goes well and still the supporters fail to attend.
If it was any where near true that Dr Koukash loves the media spotlight then he would have taken advantage of that in the sport of horse racing.He hasn't !
Being outspoken and raising the profile of SCR is exactly what is required and he requires assistance to continue to do that.
As that will be happening,I expect more supporters of other clubs to pass comment.
His statements concerning players he would be interested into bringing to the club have met with positive responses from two players,Tomkins and Morley,and the Salary Cap statements haven't yet been replied to by those making the decisions.

I agree with your first point, we've been lacking in the fitness stakes for a while now. I'd disagree with you on the second though. It doesn't matter how fit you are, you simply wont push yourself in the same ways that a group preseason will. The first Salford preseason I did was under Tamati and I came from an Oldham St Annes side that trained hard and was fitter, at the time, than any of the Amateur sides we played. It was unbelievablely hard. A Pro RL preseason is something to behold. I've since done training in the Forces and Police. Neither could hold a candle to how hard a RL preseason was. You simply could not attain the levels of fitness on your own no matter how dedicated you were. You wouldn't mentally push yourself to attain the same level.

I fully agree with your point about being pushed more in a group situation but what was stopping them working in a group situation? Could they not have done this in groups at a local gym or on a local playing field or go on some long road runs etc?

I can understand them being affected mentally by what was happening at the club but If the club had gone they would have been looking for other clubs so it was still in all their best interests to be in peak physical condition.

Human nature I guess.

If it was/is a conditioning cause and not the fact that the players are having to do so much defending;they lack confidence,are playing with inuries due to a small squad etc.wouldn't the director of rugby have noticed this and a different member of staff have been sacked ?
After the fixture list has taken them to France as well as games against Wigan and Leeds,and a heavy pitch at Wakefield,I think it fair to say that would make most people certainly match fit.

My view is PV's position was only ever viewed as short term from day one by the new owner and directors. Graham Lowe will know that a new Head Coach appointment will generally always lead to the new coach wanting to bring in his own backroom team. I also believe this is the very reason why the under resourced backroom team hasn't been strengthened following the takeover. (Despite all the talk of big investment)

I think you have to ask why would Graham Lowe suggest backroom changes when he knew Phil Vievers was on borrowed time.

Good call. However, I am not a Salford fan but I am very interested / excited by the Dr and his ambitions. I think many fans are perhaps jealous. My club sacked a coach after reaching a CC final and then replaced/sacked joint coaches after winning a CC. Many fans forget the history / background of their own clubs. Good luck to the Dr and Salford fans.

No, Maguire revolutionised Wigan as a club from top to bottom. He had a background in conditioning BTW and brough back a Wigan born conditioner who had been lost to Union. Tactics wise Maguire updated SL on wrestling techniques and 2nd man plays following the Melbourne philosophy that he was a key part of (attacking mainly). Maguire switched Sam Tomkins to full back. We (wigan fans) watched some fantastic RL, on a different planet to the boring old school RL of Noble and Vievers.

I'm quite happy to accept that Maguire had a big hand in it. As you say he had a conditioning background and without him, Wigan would not have brought in a top conditioner.

I am sure he did introduce new plays, but two men in isn't unusual. However, his third man in tactic at the knee was very questionable and even 17 year olds were being banned as a result of it, as was Lima, if I remember correctly.

So, Fylde, to what does the"No" refer?

So far as Tompkins as a fullback is concerned, I'm still not convinced. I think he is very suspect under a high ball and could do just as much damage from stand off.

Incidentally, as a Wigan fan, as is my wife, you may be interested to learn that I heard tonight that Shaun Wayne expects to be replaced by Shaun Edwards next season! Only pub talk though.

No, the notion that conditioning rather than coaching was the key.

If you look at RL in this country, Maguire showed the way for SL to adopt second man ATTACKING plays (fullback taking the ball behind the lead runner) Everybody does it now but before Maguire whilst it was common place in Australia it was not so in SL.

The player going low third man still happens now. It is cleaner (lower) but every technique evolves. Look at Vila Mat (Saints) and his bowling ball technique.

TOMKINS (No P!!) is a fantastic full back. Like the best FB in the world Slater he make some awful mistakes. Not many but some. However, a Kris Rads says he could not play FB today, the role has changed so much. Neither could the best catcher of a high kick period, Steve Hampson.

Back on topic, I believe the Dr will deliver and Salford fans will enjoy their best times since the 70's.

If Wigan do not win a CC or SL GF, Wane will be replaced.

Nankivell was right bar his one mistake, your post was incorrect and lacking in thought.

Conditioning. Maguire appointed Mark Bitcon as conditioner. He made conditioning / training / the whole club much more professional and harder working. Under Brian Noble, Wigan was a holiday camp. You could argue Brian Noble had the easier ride with players like Trent Barrett at the club. Bitcon is a very important part of Wigan's success.

The biggest criticism somebody can level at Maguire is that he virtually stopped giving young players opportunities in 2011. He could have rested players more. In 2010 Paul Deacon gained rest through injury. In 2011 we had very few injuries but he chose never to rest layers, give youngsters games. Finch, Hoffman and Lima made a huge impact. Hock far less so, he returned part way through the season anyhow and only played a small number of games due to suspension.

I enjoy reading your posts but I must point out that Noble won far more,over a longer period of time,than Maguire did.
I believe I am correct to point out that during the success Noble enjoyed at Bradford he had Jennings as conditioner who has contributed to the RLW magazine.
Jennings is now back at a club in Australia where the success has not been repeated.

lacking in thought? oh dear

You seen incapable of understanding you own posts

nakivell attributes the success of wigan under maguire to conditioning...You have pointed out that were other important things, which is what I said, do try and keep up.

I asked nak for specifics about conditioning but the cupboard was bare....lacking in thought maybe?

By precisely setting how he wanted to play maguire could then have conditioning that was fit for purpose (something some uk coaches have failed to grasp). This also reduces injuries and improved physio and rehab minimises abscences.

maguire brought the whole storm systemic approach with him, not just 'conditioning'. HTH

Indeed he did and at that time he was an outstanding coach. It is important to remember the groundwork had been done by others before Nobby and he had been given an education by those coaches such as Brian Smith. IIRC, Jennings was appointed by Brian Smith. Might be wrong though.

Every coach like players has their peak. Brian Smith may even now be past his peak. John Monie came to Wigan at his peak and delivered. He later came and whilst successful was less so. Even more recent he could not well past his peak work miracles with France. Brian Noble is a good coach but past his peak. He will always coach teams that win more than they lose but in terms of winning competitions those days are gone. Maguire showed how a young coach still nearing his peak can make a difference.

I believe Brian Smith despite being past his peak can put in place systems and deliver in the short term success at Salford. The Reds need to be planning to replace him after 3 seasons maximum.

I was about to write you off as troll but the latter half of your post was deserving.

Nak made a simple mistake about when Wigan won the CC and you acted like a troll towards him.

You are right Maguire brought the entire Melbourne philosophy to Wigan. It was rumoured Kearney was out first choice at the time by the press. Luckily, we seemed to get the better end of the deal. Sport is supposedly simple but Maguire fully understood the Storm system. he brought a game plan that saw numbers in every tackle (much easier said than done), improved groundwork on the ball carrier to slow the POTB down and reduce yard gained in the set. Ball in hand, he made Wigan respect the ball, limiting offloading in our own half and once we got in the opposition 20 the attack plays based on the now common second man routines were executed perfectly. Above all he brought a discipline to the club where players were treated firmly but with clear expectations, the highest.

The fine detail is far far more but every player bought into it because they learned far more from Maguire than they did from anybody else, anywhere else. Ask Paul Deacon!

Conditionining was led by Bitcon.

Wigan under Brian Noble was a holiday camp compared to Maguire.

I have just found an article from a couple of months ago and Matt Elliott gave the first opportunity for coaching to both Brian Noble and Michael Maguire.
Other people doing the groundwork and then being replaced by others does seem quite common in a lot of sports.
Jennings the conditioner has followed Elliott about,but it is the piece about McDermott wielding a stick which may have been a significant factor in the fitness/conditioning.
Dunno about visualisation but a sports psychologist,after what the Salford players have endured,may be of some assistance.
[url=http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10846569Elliott Interview[/url