yeh....and you got nilled too, we beat the champs last year but that didnt mean a team of a lower calibre couldnt beat us!

partly because theres not much below us but there you go

When did I say you couldn't beat us

read your last post and the one you were replying too...

mcrea has to go!!!!...were have we gone since he took charge ?...this season we have the smallest pack i have ever seen in super leauge....for me players such as parker...sidlow....sibbit.....fitzy...littler...big phil (lazyiest defender in super leauge!!)..are just not up to super leauge standerd!!..i am all for supporting my team and i will be their on saturday instead of sitting at home and i do not belive booing your team or even the coach will help inspire any kind of performance from them but mcrea and simms (who has taken the club for a ride for years!!) are any were near good enuth....personaly i think the players dont want to play for him..if i was a player i would react alot better to a coach who bangs on a tracksuite and stands on the sideline!! not watching from the stand in his comfy chair thinking of what posatives he can make up to put in the manchester evening news!!..i mite be wrong but maybe a few changes team wise are needed!! parker bakc to second row...j.smith back to 7..M.smith hooker off the bench...fitzy droped...henry to full back..gibson to the centre and tyrer to wing but im no coach i could well be wrong

ohhh and swain to second row with holdworth loose and stef stand off

defient red


thats where some of your comments are coming from.

defiant red before moving into Rugby league coaching buy a dictionary and sort out some of your text like prose.

Personally, I think he's got a point somewhere in there.

We're an awful side and going nowhere. We've gone backwards since we finished fifth, that just isn't acceptable for anyone. So who do we blame?

Well the obvious one is the coach. Finds positives in every performance when there clearly isn't any, comes out with the same, tired old platitudes every week and clearly offers nothing to the team in terms of training or motivation. The same, boring, predictable rugby week in, week out is really, really shocking. How he gets away with it, I don't know.

Then there's obviously the players. Rumours abound that some don't like the coach and refuse to put the full effort in because of him. Obviously it's alleged, but considering what happened with Harrison it just wouldn't surprise me. Not to mention 'Jacksonvillegate' - player power undermining club management, wonderful. Then, of course, there's the effort and attitude which just isn't there for some of them. A lot of them, including some older, more established players who should know better, need to take a long, hard look at themselves.

I know this last part is going to stir up a hornet's nest, but I think Wilky and the directors need to take a long hard look at things, too. Before anyone starts, I'm not questioning their loyalty and dedication and I know full well that without them, we wouldn't have a club to support. But the club's is such a shocking state at the moment, not just on the pitch, but also off it in too many areas. I'm sure JW wouldn't stand for poor business practice at Wilkinson Star so why do things go unnoticed at the Willows? I'm sure they can see how badly things are on the pitch, so you'd think they'd step in and intervene somehow.

Things are a mess, unless they improve quickly, we'll only be moving in one direction. Backwards.

Very good post GT, and well put

Things are a mess, unless they improve quickly, we'll only be moving in one direction. Backwards.

GT we are already going backwards quicker than a skydriver without a parachute

I know mate. My point was that we're only going to carry on going backwards unless something changes.

A sensible and thoughtful post GT. Amidst all the anger and disillusionment of the fans it is still soul destroying to watch what is happening. Like the rest of us, I have no idea of an answer or quick fix because I am not privy to the true nature of the source of the problem (Coach, Players or Management?). Everyone can see what the result is but it seems WE are powerless in trying to do anything about it. Whilst a shiny new ground, whenever that may actually happen, may be a blessing - I wonder if it will change what we have now that significantly? It will still be based on revenue and the club are driving a lot of die-hards away at an alarming rate with what is on offer now. There is a distinct need for change.

G.T. I fully agree that we are woeful on the park & appear to be going backwards, but some of the points defiant red posted I cant agree with, hence my comment.
Some, such as Parker going back to second row is a must, he will never be a prop whilst he has a hole in his a##e, when Holdsworth played L.F he had a cracking game but Swain went second row & didnt particularly look comfortable.
As for dropping Fitzy, he has played out of his skin this season, what has he done wrong up to now in games we have played?
Sidlow needs to play more time & out wide, he is a ball handling forward looks to offload but no back up.
Jewitts aggression has been missing, he needs to be in the squad, made his mark when he came on at Wakey.
As for Stef, we need him on the park.
The pack is massivley light weight.

As others have said, you support your team, whatever happens on the pitch, you dont have to LIKE whats happening on/off the pitch to be that supporter, & I think plenty off us sure as hell DONT like whats going on at the moment.

For me neither Fitzy or Steff should be dropped, Parker and Adamson should the first choice second rowers and Swain without doubt the starting loose forward. The problem for me is that we need Steff, Matty Smith and Houldsworth on the pitch at the same time for the most amount of time possible. I'd be in favour having Houldsworth come off the bench for Alker after 20 mins and rotate him and Matty Smith between scrum halve and hooker but giving Swain the hookers defensive role. And also think it is time to look in the lower leagues for a big prop be they the younger hungry type or an old stager who would relish one last hurrah as BB's Ma says we are massively underweight in the pack - Can anyone say if Korkidas is still only on loan from Hudds to Wakey?? maybe worth seeing if we could prize him away, I know he has his detractors but he's add beef to the pack and maybe add a little more aggression which is sadley lacking.

This is the problem here.
We as fans can see what is wrong so why the hell cant our coach.
Sorry but Matty Smith is struggling and as the scrum half he should be running the show, unfortunately his confidence looks shot to pieces and yet again I think McRae did not help by just dropping him with no reason given.
We have a talented scrum half in the wings a local lad who must be bursting a gut to get out there.
This is the future of the club so why does he not get a game ?
The pack is lightweight but they will get no where if we persist on standing still when a pass is made.
The tackling with a couple of exceptions by the pack is also woeful.
Yes it is all coaching and yes that is where the finger here is being pointed.

I have and again where do I say that. I think it's you who have misread the various posts.

Think you'll find the younger halves are being told to play the game by numbers rather than off the cuff stuff that any self respecting halve knows is his stocking trade.

It's a great policy to recruit the best fring youth talent that's available and then coach the talent out of them, turn them into no marks and release them to fester or prosper at other clubs.

I can see it now SM takes his first coaching session with the great Wigan side of the 80's and takes aside Gregory and Edwards and says just for a change were going to ask you to not attack the line, not throw any missed passes or show any creative nowse as we want to see what 5 drivers and a pin point fullback finder kick produces as a result.

I blame Thatcher


GT - good to see a thoughtful analysis on here. I agree with many of your points.

It feels to me that the whole club has pinned its whole hopes on the new stadium and that we've accepted that we can't have a decent team or matchday experience until we get so there isn't the drive to make it better than it currently is. It is also sucking up all our finance and Director's time so there's not enough resources to focus on getting things right in the present

Other teams had similar dips when they moved stadiums but they started from a higher base so it wasn't so dramatic

Not making excuses here because the quality of entertainment (on and off the field) is poor and whilst that isn't new for Salford (unfortunatley) in the past there's always been a "we're in this together" culture that doesn't seem to exist any more. not sure where it's gone but it has to be felt from the top of any organisation.

I feel that leaders of the club are spending all their time on the future, which is right in many ways, but if they don't spend any time on the "now" we may find we don't have a future

What upset me most about Sunday was that to me on paper both clubs are very similar, as I would say about the teams. Where we are different is the way they both approached the game the attitude and the understanding both individually and collectively the job they had to do.
The set up and the pattern is dictated by the coach and to me this was another case of one team looking well drilled/coached and Salford.
If i`m right about the two teams (on paper) then it comes back to the coach and the level of commitment/performance he is obtaining and sadly I don`t believe SM and his team are getting the best from what we have.
Ultimately we were outplayed in every facet of the game by a team we should be looking to be on a par with, if not looking to surpass

I think that is a little unfair to Wakey, as I would have shared your view a few years ago, but imo they are streets ahead of us atm.

Besides, 'on paper' is banded around too much as most sides who raise their game are in with a chance of beating any other. The difference for me is that Wakey are raising their own bar each season, helped by a focused coach and some shrewd aquisitions. They are arguably in the same situation as us off the field.

The trouble with us atm is that morale is rock-bottom, the team isn't functioning as such, and the coaching team don't seem able to change the negative aspects and build on the positives.

Thats the crux of the matter for me and makes you wonder if a good early set too would help. Remember years ago in the first State of Origin match when they were packing for the first scrum that the commentators said watch out for this and it kicked off royally. They apparently had settled on the idea of a bit of Biff to get a bit more passion flowing. Can't see it having an adverse effect if say on Saturday it kicked off and both teams lost a player for 10 early on and the rest of the team felt galvinised by it all.

Some excellent posts on here but sadly although we are all in agreement I very much doubt whether SMc will change his `damage liability` approach. Even that is getting us absolutely nowhere.

I agree too that all roads lead to Barton so we could be in for a tough couple of seasons before we see any real change. Depressing times I am afraid.

Without wanting to get into an argument, can you expand please??

l really felt for the fans that travelled over on Sunday, because l can remember being in their shoes!!!

But to say both clubs are similar (at the mo) is stretching it, do you not think??

Yes both play out of poor grounds but Wakey average more, and have done for a quite some years, Wakey have a competitive team, again have had one for quite a few years.

And now wakey can say they have a good youth set up (winning the academy last year) and now playing wakey academy graduates in the first team.

All that said, neither team will even be able to go much further without a new ground.

All the best for the rest of the year.

This does make sense. I wonder if the decision has been made to "write off" this season and base all hopes on starting to build in 2011 for the stadium in 2012. Finances must be really tight, I wonder how many of the Director's own businesses are struggling? Most of them probably have no cash to throw at the club right now, but in 12 months time it may look better.
I am also unsure if the current "down" that surrounds the club will cause long term damage, but that may be a risk the chairman and board are willing to take.

See through the season, new coach in the off season when it costs less to end the contract of SM, start building again???????