Listen mate, just because a few fans on here shout out that the board should spend more cash, wont mean they will spit there dummy out like most on here have done, and walk away from the club!

I'm 25 and been supporting and watching salford since i was 15/16. In that time all we've won is mickey mouse cups etc. We've lost the majority of games in that time, never really had a decent team, never had a good season in the top flight apart from one when we made the playoffs. I'm just like most supporters of sporting clubs, be it rugby league, union or football who want a success for the club they support and want the board members of that club to bring quality players in and to win things. All these facts and figures that have been shown do show us to make a loss but that still doesn't make me not want the club to still try to bring in quality players. Hopefully the sale of myler will let us sign a couple of quality players who would give us more of an edge.

why not? go back a few pages and you, and others, were arguing from the premise that they wouldnt be still here if they were not making money?

time to say thankyou to them...

for once, i believe that you are right. for this reason, i think we should take a lead from the board's position and instead of getting het up we will just dismiss your rantings as unimportant drivel

Welcome to Salfords version of the Nazi party



Everybody must do as we say or feel our wrath.
Nobody is allowed individual thoughts, unless they follow the party line.

FFS! I don't agree with the views by the JW bashers but they are at the very least allowed to feel how they like and post their views on here - a public forum. Theres no need for the personal abuse they have recieved.

Though it could be argued that anyone who thinks the board line their pockets with shed loads of cash from the club are morons

The first time any real insult was hurled on this thread, it was aimed at those of us defending JW on here. From that moment on it was always going to swing back the other way as well.

Second of all, no one's said they can't have their individual thoughts. All people have been doing is providing facts and reasoned arguments to prove those thoughts/opinions wrong. Isn't that part of the reason these message boards exist?

People will never agree on every subject. Sometimes, though, there will be more people who see one side of a discussion than those who see the other. That's life. Nothing to do with "Salford's version of the Nazi party".

point of clarification. opinion = reasoned judgement. what was said wasn't reasoned - just plainly wrong. when people say things that are plainly wrong they should be shown to be - its the reason why people should shout down nazi views because they too are not reasoned but just driven by bigotry.

same principle - it's important to shout down 'opinions' when they are wrong.

free speech is free speech, I may disagree with what you are saying, but you have the right to say it.

blah blah blah


the only way we can sign quality players is by increasing the crowds, we did this in the late 60's and mid 70's after a number of very poor years and the "crowds" did return, but it was still only about 7000 average and we were winning the league. On Friday nights top class entertainment was available both on and off the field and many United and City footballers attended matches, we were a high profile club but still could not get the punters in. Nowadays Rugby League has not got the high profile it had in them days just compare crowds, it was covered in more papers and was regular on BBC so people knew the players. Now despite what sky tell you Rugby League is not high profile, people in the street are not talking about it and therefore People do not know who these quality players are so even if we did sign them and took a gamble like we did with Garry Jack would that increase our numbers to enable us to carry on with building up the team and take the pressure off the board in the present climate I doubt it.
I unfortunately do not have the answer, over posters will say a new ground will get more fans, Wigan moved from a central location and their fanbase fell, Warrington and Hull moved to better more central locations and their attendances went up. We are said to be moving to an out of town location will we buck the trend and increase over fanbase. IMO the site of West One was the best place for our new ground before they built west one this was near to the willows but closer to all amenities and road, tram and rail connections which would entice more people in, but thats gone now.

We are in a catch 22 situation here.
We need bigger crowds to bring in more money.
A new stadium will not bring this results will.
We may get higher crowds in a new ground at the start but this will die away as the novelty wears off,and we are still losing games.
Do we go for bust and but players to achieve success ? Well Warrington and Wigan have tried it but look at them.
With the 3 year licence it should give us a chance to grow as a club and develop our youngsters and build a winning team.
Unfortunately as shown with Richie this is a load of bollox.
So it looks like we stay as we are unless a sugar daddy comes along.
Does any one know any Arab RL supporters

No, wrong opinions should never be shouted down at all. That is preposterous. Reasoned well structured counter arguments should be used to help change the other persons mind. Shouting down is just bullying.

As for the OP being just plainy wrong. How can you be 100% positive that JW has never made any money at all from the club in the years that he has been in his position. Are you his accountant?

Oh thats ok then you insult me so I'll insult you back. And here was me thinking we were adults not little children





Perhaps it comes down to individual interpretation then cos it seems so to me.

I didn't say it was right, did I? Merely pointing out that if one side gets offensive, sooner or later someone on the other is going to get annoyed and let fly as well.

The point stands, though, that aiming the accusation of insulting people because they disagree with the "pro-JW" is a bit wide of the mark.




Oh well. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that.

Amen to that brother

Couldn't agree more. The football season has been over for weeks now and its still all people are talking about. Sky can spew out as many stats as they want about crowds increasing but frankly we are still the poor relation.

I have been a shareholder in Salford City Reds since JW took over the club,and when had the SOS appeal,( Save our Salford)and although not an accountant I can read a balance sheet and I can tell you that JW has never made any money out of Salford City Reds since he became Chairman.

In fact as has been stated previously JW and his family for many years and HC, IW, and the late NH until he passed away have kept our club going with their own money and I suspect that many of the main gripers on this forum who have a lot to say are possibly some of the ones who have put the least in.

Yes people are entitled to an opinion but I am old enough to remember the UCP Tripe Shops and there has been more tripe on here than was on sale in the UCP shops.

the accounts are in the public domain! how hard is this to fathom? i can access them, those saying JW 'makes money' can acces them anyone can access them...indeed, anyone can access the accounts of pretty much any publicly traded company. they just need to make a tiny bit of effort...instead, they are lazy and expressed their unfounded 'opinions' without any basis.

and by shouting down i mean demonstrating that they are wrong...as done! so they are not 'opinions'. they were statements of untruth.

How does someone gain access for Salfords accounts then going back to 1982? Is it as simple as just googling it? I for one wouldn't have a clue where to start. So help educate these people and point them in the right direction. Or does it make you feel superior to them with your I know whats right and your thick cos you don't attitude?

Anyone who chose to buy shares in the club receives a copy of the accounts each year and is invited to the Annual General Meeting, held usually just before or just after Christmas.

It is from these accounts that some people can see exactly how JW, HC and the other directors have and continue to help the club and it is these people who are also criticized for trying to put a reasoned defence of the board.

Start here [urlhttp://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/[/url summary accounts for any given year £1

Yes I understand that but those who are arguing that JW has made money from SRLFC obviously don't have shares so aren't privy to that info.

Are shares still available to buy from the club?

I can't find it through that site

SALFORD FOOTBALL CLUB COMPANY(1914)LIMITED(THE)
WILLOWS ROAD
WEASTE
M5 2FT
Company No. 00137072

search on that company name or company number

Cheers



A quick scan of that though only shows info from 1995 (if i've looked correctly). It still however doesn't prove that JW has not earned a single penny during his time at the club.

my 'attitude' comes from:

the financial poistion was pointed out, yet the arguments still came.

we're on page 11 and we're repeating the same 'defence' of the directors as page 3, 4, 5 etc...at some point, it might sink in.

It's been pointed out already that accounts can be requested from companies house on the page where the last position statement of the club was put up. its a legal obligation to submit accounts to there. probably back on page 5 or 6 of this thread that was mentioned. accounts can be downloaded going back for a number of years. to go back earlier means requesting them direct as they have not gone back to far in converting paper copies to PDF copies.

people posted statements like - "you don't get it" (aimed at me) "salford rugby league makes money". on what basis was that said? that's the sort of 'opinion' that should be shouted down and has been beacuse we've shown that the club doesnt make money.

next question:

accounts are cumulative, the loss position is the net cash in/cash out position over the lifetime of the company - unless JW was taking some form of dividend (doubtful - the club owes him money so he'd be reducing the company position to ever repay loans, while other shareholders would be entitled too) he couldn't be making a profit. i'd suggest that NOT making money between 1995 and 2007 (in fact, making a loss) would more than outweigh any posible single year surplus (which hasn't dented the cumulative position) anyway. in addition, that surplus would be by the club - not JW personally so to say he's making money fails to recognise that he is distinct from the club.

one element of that is worth repeating - the club is dependant on loans from JW. if he was to recall them, what position do you think the club would be in given it is loss making?

for that above paragraph alone its worth the argument. people came on criticising directors for not putting money in and not buying players (we can show they already sink significant personal money in currently). people went further to state that directors must be making money (some individuals stated this as a 'fact' - how?).

ultimately, my 'attitude' comes from the simple truth that the existence of Salford RLFC is dependent on our Directors and their continued commitment to sink their own money in. so when they are criticised on such a false basis as in this thread, those spouting what are lies really, should be shouted down because they are simply wrong.

and i'll repeat, we should be thanking our Directors, not criticising them...or we''ll be another Swinton, Widnes, Oldham, Rochdale. and surely we don't want that?

I bought mine over two/three periods when the club had a rights issue to raise some funds for the club, it was well publicized at the time and you could purchase various amounts from £25 upwards.

Contact the club over the availability of shares, the Finance Director or Chief Executive may be able to help.

I did not buy the shares to make any money but to help the club, and JW and the others have in my opinion done it for the same reasons.

All the Directors have done is put IN over the last 20 years. If they had charged their time for working for the Club the debt to them would exceed £3 Million.

Unlike the Hetheringtons of this World JAW HC & IW do NOT take a Salary. Would you give up your time and money as they do to receive all these questionable brickbats from some fans?

We should be eternally grateful to these men in keeping RL staged at The Willows these past 20 years.