Spot on Bigpev.

We need to get rid of this victim mentality, watch how different refs work, what they tend to pull up, and adjust how we play to what they do. I don't think they are biased (although with Hewer it times it can be hard to believe) but they are prone to incompetence (see Tompkins first try).

Iain,I agree with you about the victim mentality as we gave away two or three stupid penalties throughout the game,but all I ask is that the referees are consistent,you mention the first Tomkins try which the referee waived play on whereas the one that we picked up in exactly the same circumstances he called us back and awarded a scrum with our feed.

The penalties for lying on against us were no different than some of the Wigan lying on yet he appeared to penalize one side for most of the time and I cant accept as other posters have suggested that some teams know just how long that they can lie on for at the play the ball.

There was a difference between the two incidents though. In the first one he should have stopped play because Tomkins knocked on by getting a hand to the ball when it was passed. In the second one Wigan simply lost the ball. Bentham should have let us play on but gave absolutely no advantage.

To be honest the penalty count was pretty even from what I gather. I just think certain penalties were given that shouldn't and also there were a few back to back penalties that really hurt us. I thought he was really poor today!!

Oh i guarantee it wasn't mate.

That was because after the first Wigan knock on a Wigan player touched the ball before the Salford player picked it up, and as soon as that happens the ref HAS to give the knock on. Maybe you couldn't see it from the shed, but that was the reason.
From behind the posts I would agree that Tomkins first try looked like a knock on.

Just what I was trying to say - the refs are what the refs are - we need to accept that, understand it and try and use that knowledge to our own advantage.

On the lying on issues today, it would be very interesting to watch a video with a stopwatch and just see if our perception of being hard done to is actually right.

All that said - I think one area that could be massively improved is policing of forward passes - get the touch judges involved!!!!!

k well i guarantee it was!!! we were just penalised for stupid stuff, Sidlow got done a few times for holding down which was Harsh. I thought they scored a few tries which were a joke, but I thought all of our tries were nicely crafted tries!!

That's how I saw it too. Glad you've clarified the rule regarding 'playing advantage.' This was my question at the time.



Agreed, agreed and agreed. This habitual sledging of the ref wears a little thin. (We sounded like Bradford fans today. "fooooorward."icon_wink.gif I really doubt there's any bias from the refs and suspect it's about time we do our homework in order to get the best out of each ref, depending on their interpretation of the rules.

All the top sides seem to get away with slowing down the play of the ball/lying on, and being offside. But is that because the refs are bent, or because top teams spend a lot of time working on wrestling and movement in the defensive line (rather than just standing offside). Yes we are hard done by at times, but rather than moan we need to do something about it. If we want to progress, these are the types of areas we need to fine tune to give us an edge and make us more competitive.

I think wigan were very clever yesterday, any hint of slowing the play the ball down they were struggling and wriggling and giving the impression that they were being slowed down, whilst our lads just waited until they get off.

I think wigan need a little bit of credit as they look at different parts of the game to exploit! i.e 3 men in a tackle = more time in the ruck!

He was very poor yesterday but what annoyed me yesterday were 2 fans at the front of the shed, they were both shouting abuse at Malc and Highton, calling names at Patten and the rest of the players, both were quite elderly, one had a funny hat on and the other had a cap on with badges on it, both are an absolute disgrace to the club

Correct, at one point Jeff Lima earned a penalty as he held onto Sidlow's leg, as he tried to leave the tackle, Bentham was the wrong side of play so couldn't see the incident.

When Lima got up he had the biggest grin on his face.

Last season how many times did you see Sam Tomkins trap peoples arm and roll in the tackle.

It's not very sportsman like, but if you can get away with things like that!!! I think we need to be a bit more savvy in this area.

Tomkins knock on should have been seen by both the TJ and Bentham. Sorry no excuses there.

The 2nd half one, I think he had already blown for the knock on by the time we reacted and collected the ball so correct call.

The club should invite an official over to explain the differences in play betwen the pens we gave any and the methods employed by Wigan.

Fans don't help by abusing the ref, the ironic reaction is so much better.

This isn`t a new thing we get nailed for technical infringements time and time again. This has hapenned for a few years now and rather than pointing out the ref every time we need to look at what we are doing (or arent doing!). It isn`t down to one specific ref they all penalise us, weren`t not a dirty team but the penalty count is always against us usually for technical fouls.
I`d love to see the split between tech fouls & dirty fouls.

i hope the club invite the referee's down to the club preseason so they can identify what is a foul and what isnt, im sure stewart cummings does go to each club and highlights any rule changes but imo i think it would benefit both parties if as a club we invited each official down so we can fix what is going wrong.
Its the advantage rule which upsets fans, some the ref brings back some the refs let go consistancy is what us fans want let everything go or let nothing go simple

As for yesterday the penality count was 14-2 so with that much ball wigan should reaily have put us away,

According to todays League Express the penalty count was 10 - 7 in Wigans favour.

Bang on!

It's not illegal, it's very smart.

For the past two years Salford have had less ball than anyone in Superleague so it's a key area that needs improving. Other than ball retention it is down to giving away too many penalties and obviously there is a lot more to it than just telling the players not to infringe. Fatigue could be one factor but I believe lack of preperation is the other.

It would appear nobody at the club studies in detail the referees and their interpretations and I think it needs addressing. The players could then be given pre match report/instructions on the areas the ref is currently stict or tolerant on. Perhaps the coaching staff should make the referee aware prior to the game that they have been studying his recent performances and they have worked with the players to minimise penalties to his interpretation of the rules. Further to this they could study videos of their opponents and make the ref aware of any concerns they have about the opposition in relation to holding down too long, forward passes, deliberate obstructions and offsides etc.

The club could also build a comprehensive database for each ref with detailed information such as:

1.What type of penalties do they award most?
2.How often do they give back to back penalties?
3.When in a game do they award the most pens? First 10 mins, last 10 mins?
4.Identify if there is any patten to their refereeing?
5.On what number tackle do they award most penalties?
6.What area of the field do they award most pens?
7.Does the team leading or trailing in a match get more penalties?
8.Has there been any recent shift in what the ref awards pens for most?

etc,etc

we have done this in the past, and it worked quite well, I think reffing errors were identified by the ref but he was confused as to which side was Salford, playing in away kit at Sheffield, i think it did prove a point that we were victims at the time. but times have move on don't forget we have sky 3 times so far next season, so with the video ref we should get the decs right, unless we play Hull where even the video ref was against us.

I have to say the two things that make our game unatractive to a lot of fans and absolutely get my goat are (a) the forward pass rule. FFS it should go back or let them throw it anywhere. (b)The ruck area rules. You have just been victim of just what every club from every league has to put up with week in week out. Both my gripes are the most ambiguous set of rules in any sport and to leave the officials to sort them out and get the flack after is a joke. Brought in to sold called speed up th game and make it more attractive ( an excuse to follow the aussies) they want binning. Simplfy them and it would make the game alot better. People left the kick and clap brigade in droves when they made their rules to finicky because it ruined the specticle now they have adjusted and they have got a massive following again.

I like the idea that is set to be used in the "nines" competition. If the acting halfback gets tackled in possession of the ball, then it's a handover.

This should mean that we get better ball movement and hookers/acting halves who can actually pass the ball instead of the head down and scoot which is so prevalent now.

I would like to see there only being one marker at the play the ball and as soon as the ref has tracked back ten or nearly ten a simple "release" to play the ball. It's a bloody joke all the wrestling. When the ball carriers forearm has touched the ground the tackle is complete. But in todays game with the speed it is played I really think a second ref should be in there.

we haven't enough refs