out of the current players picked who would you pick for the starting game against australia. Sorry if there is all ready another thread, havent got a lot of time.

Carl Ablett (Leeds), Tom Briscoe (Hull), George Burgess, Sam Burgess, Tom Burgess (all South Sydney), Rob Burrow (Leeds), Josh Charnley (Wigan), Rangi Chase (Castleford), Leroy Cudjoe (Huddersfield), Liam Farrell (Wigan), James Graham (Canterbury Bulldogs), Ryan Hall (Leeds), Zak Hardaker (Leeds), Chris Hill (Warrington), Gareth Hock (Widnes), Michael McIlorum (Wigan), Lee Mossop (Wigan), Sean O'Loughlin (Wigan), James Roby (St Helens), Kevin Sinfield (Leeds, capt), Sam Tomkins (Wigan), Kallum Watkins (Leeds), Ben Westwood (Warrington), Gareth Widdop (Melbourne).

1 S.Tomkins
2 Charnley
3 Cudjoe
4 Watkins
5 Hall
6 Widdop
7 sinfield
8 Graham
9 Roby
10 G.Burgess
11 Westwood
12 S.Burgess
13 O Loughlin
subs
Hill
Burrows
Hock
Hardaker

bench to light......can't afford to have a back on the bench

tomkins

Hall
cudjoe
watkins
charnley

chase
sinfield
roby
graham
burgess (sam)
farrell
hock
westwood


bench-
hill
mossop
burrow
oloughlin

I would put Briscoe in ahead of Charnley. I think his strength would make him a better option against the Aussie defense than Charnley.

I would start Hill and put G. Burgess on the bench. Also, I think another front rower on the bench in place of Hardaker is sensible. Widdop is pretty versatile and Burrow can go into the halves if we need to cover any injury in the backs. Mossop or T. Burgess on the bench (for size and impact I would probably go with the 3rd Burgess)

1 S.Tomkins
2 Charnley
3 Cudjoe
4 Watkins
5 Hall
6 Widdop
7 Chase
8 Graham
9 Roby
10 Mossop
11 Westwood
12 Hock
13 S Burgess
subs
Sinfield
G Burgess
Farrell
Hill

Tomkins, Charnley, Watkins, Ablett, Hall, Chase, Sinfield, Graham, Roby, Mossop, Hock, Burgess, O'Lochlin

Int.- Widdop, Burgess.G, Hill, Westwood

I think George Burgess will definitely play

1 Tomkins
2 Charnley
3 Cudjoe
4 Watkins
5 Hall
6 Widdop
7 Sinfield
8 Hill
9 McLlorum
10 Graham
11 S Burgess
12 Westwood
13 O'Loughlin

14 Roby
15 G Burgess
16 Hock
17 Ablett

I know most wouldn't pick McLlorum but i think we need to get into their faces and there are few better than Micky at that. Ablett gets my pick, firstly as his recent form deserves it but secondly he can also cover the backs. Hock is the one i'm really not sure of. I think i'd pick him but tell him he only has 1 chance, blow it and he won't be considered for the rest of the WC.

1. Tomkins
2. Charnley
3. Watkins
4. Cudjoe
5. Hall
6. Widdop
7. Sinfield
8. Graham
9. Roby
10. Hill
11. S. Burgess
12. Westwood
13. O'Loughlin

14. McIlorum
15. G. Burgess
16. Hock
17. Mossop

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Ablett
Hall
Widdop
Sinfield
Graham
Roby
Mossop
S. Burgess
Westwood
O'Loughlin

G. Burgess
Mossop
Hock
Farrell

1, Tomkins
2, Charnley 5, Hall
3, Ablett 4, Watkins
6, Sinfield
7, Chase
8, G.Burgess 10, Graham
9, McIlorum
11, Westwood 12, Hock
13, S.Burgess

Bench:

Burrow
Hill
Roby
O'Loughlin

I used to hate McIlorum, mainly because he is extremely dirty, but over the season I have learned that he is a damn fine rugby player. Wigans two recent games against Leeds he was absolutely everywhere getting stuck in firmly but fairly, I agree with the Wigan fan that he needs to start and really rattle Australia. Roby is better technically than McIlorum but he is also soft. For the first 20-30 mins we need some real hard play and McIlorum will give us that. Then some Roby on to cause some damage out of dummy half.
Also O'loughlin cannot start against the Aussie, he has hardly played and will miss tackles, let him be eased into the game.

Agree regarding O'Loughlin. If he was fit he'd be starting loose, but lack of games makes it a tricky one. We do have other group games that would be more suitable for him to do more minutes in.

Nearly all the topics regarding England line-ups are for vs Australia. It will be interesting to see how we line-up for the other group games and if he tries to pick the strongest each time or rotates a little.

Its a point made on decent logic (although labelling Roby as soft is a mile wide of the mark, imo).
We may as well give it a go, as its something we haven't tried for a while. I'm always of the opinion that we should pick the biggest, hardest pack we can muster and avoid lightweight forwards, so McIlorum falls into that category.
Do I think he's a good hooker, yes, but there's a few I would pick before him as an individual. If your going for a hard knock though, I suppose he's the one.
I mentioned somewhere that he's a bit like Bernard Dwyer. He was great for the saints and a very tough character, but he was consistently overlooked for international duty for the sake of Jackson or Dermott.

1. Billy Slater
2. Darius Boyd
3. Greg Inglis
4. Michael Jennings
5. Jorge Taufua
6. Jonathan Thurston
7. Cooper Cronk
8. Matthew Scott
9. Cameron Smith
10. Andrew Fifita
11. Nate Myles
12. Sam Thaiday
13. Paul Gallen

14. James Tamou
15. Luke Lewis
16. Anthony Watmough
17. Daly Cherry Evans

Not convinced O'Loughlin's gonna make this. Why's Ferres on the plane to SA if he's not going to take part? Burrow as an extra 7/9 option makes more sense if Sinfield's likely to play 13.

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Cudjoe (options are very thin at left centre)
Hall
Sinfield
Widdop
Graham
McIlorum
G Burgess
Westwood
S Burgess
O'Loughlin

Subs
Mossop
Hill
Hock
Roby

Sure Roby is not soft, I probably used the wrong term there. But in hookers you generally do have two types. Its the toughest position on the pitch as they are in the thick of it constantly. Some hookers get there head down and graft the work load that the position demands and hit back with finesse, Roby. Others use the work load to channel aggression and stamp their authority on the game, which McIlorum tends to try and do every week. Using both of them would be brilliant.

1. Tomkins
2. Charnley
3. Watkins (if fit, if not then Hardaker)
4. Cudjoe
5. Hall
6. Sinfield
7. Widdop
8. Graham
9. Roby
10. Hill
11. Westwood
12. Farrell
13. S. Burgess

14. Burrow
15. G. Burgess
16. O'Loughlin
17. Mossop

1. Tomkins
2. Charnley
3. Cudjoe
4. Watkins
5. Hall
6. Chase
7. Sinfield
8. Hill
9. McIlorum
10. Mossop
11. Westwood
12. S Burgess
13. O'Loughlin

14. G Burgess
15. Graham
16. Hock
17. Roby

But I change my mind all the time. If Inglis manages to come back from injury, I'd definitely want Cudjoe on his side rather than Watkins to try and match his strength - I'm sick of him running through our lighter players.

I'm warming to the idea of starting with McIlorum, he is a real asset when it comes to bruising the opposition early, and I think that's perfect in the tougher games. Against Ireland I'd be more tempted to start Roby and keep Burrow on the bench.

I'd put Graham and Roby on at the 15-20 minute mark and ideally leave them on for the rest of the match from that point (McIlorum can fill in as a defensive lock later on). I'm just slightly concerned that the props are a bit inexperienced to start this way (I'd prefer to start Crabtree and one of Mossop/Hill). Hock is a risk I'd take vs Australia, but I'm not sure I'd bother with him in the games we 'should' win - he's just a way to up the risk.

FB - Sam Tomkins (Wigan)
W - Josh Charnley (Wigan)
C - Leeroy Cudjoe (Huddersfield) / Zak Hardaker (Leeds)
C - Kallum Watkins (Leeds)
W - Ryan Hall (Leeds)
SO - Gareth Widdop (Melbourne)
SH - Rangi Chase (Castleford)
P - Sam Burgess (South Sydney)
H - Michael Mcilorum (Wigan)
P - Lee Mosop (Wigan)
SR - Ben Westwood (Warrington)
SR - Carl Ablett (Leeds)
L - Kevin Sinfield (Capt.)(Leeds)
Sub - George Burgess (South Sydney)
Sub - James Graham (Canterbury Bulldogs)
Sub - Gareth Hock (Widnes) / Tom Burgess (South Sydney)
Sub - Robbie Burrow (Leeds)

Tom Briscoe (Hull), Liam Farrell (Wigan), Chris Hill (Warrington) Sean O'Loughlin (Wigan), James Roby (St Helens),

1 Tomkins.
2 Charnley.
3 Ablett.
4 O'loughlin.
5 Hall.
6 Widdop.
7 Sinfield.
8 Graham.
9 Roby.
10 G. Burgess.
11 Westwood.
12 Farrell.
13 S. Burgess.
14 McIlorum.
15 Hock.
16 Hill.
17 Mossop.

This is my 17 as a decent defending side although my chosen centres are out of position they are both capable of doing a job on inglis/jennings and co and i think the halfs would stick to a game plan better with burgess aT 13 playing as a third prop as they do in the NRL.

1. Tomkins
2. Charnley
3. Watkins
4. Ablett
5. Hall
6. Widdop
7. Sinfield
8. Graham
9. McIllorum
10. Hill
11. S.Burgess
12. Westwood
13. O'Loughlin

14. G.Burgess
15. T.Burgess
16. Hock
17. Roby

I think the form Ablett has been in he offers more than Cudjoe personally, and his wind up merchant stuff could work against the Ozzies. I'd definitely go with McIllorum to start, he's brutal at times and will hurt the opposition (he's rarely dirty, but hard enough to make opposition fans cry that he is all the time.)

I've gone with Widdop over Chase as I don't think Chase can stick to structures and plays for himself to much, Widdop has the rugby brain we need. As a Wigan fan it hurts me to say it, but I wouldn't have Mossop anywhere near the England set up going on form, he's been largely anonymous this season and has always lacked aggression and has been consistently out performed by Taylor in the Wigan side this year, so I'll give his spot to T.Burgess.

To the guy that thinks O'Loughlin coming back from injury will miss tackles, you need your head shaking pal, O'Loughlin is the definition of a human clamp.

Hock is a risk, but a necessary one I think, we need ruthless aggression against Aus. Only issue is we need that ruthless aggression to be controlled, can this ever be the case with Hock? I'm doubtful, but like I said, a necessary risk.

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Cudjoe
Hall
Sinfield
Chase
S Burgess
Roby
Graham
Hock
Westwood
O'Loughlin

Hill
Ablett
Widdop
G Burgess

1. Tomkins
2. Charnley
3. Watkins
4. Cudjoe
5. Hall
6. Widdop
7. Chase
8. Graham
9. Sinfield
10. Mossop
11. Hock
12. S Burgess
13. O'Loughlin

14. Roby
15. G Burgess
16. Hill
17. Westwood