Good point

No I'm not. Since their announcment this lunchtime, I've already seen you suggesting that Northampton would be a team comprised almost entirely of Northern dual registered players, that all the players would be based and train in the North and would only set foot in Northamptonshire for matches, and now that the RFL would manipulate the fixture list to give Northampton an unfair advantage ahead of other clubs. You were exactly the same with South Wales Scorpions for the first six months, I remember you were so eager to find any hint of weakness that you could use to attack the new club with. I don't care if you claim that it's a joke or 'sarcasm', you are quite clearly resentful of any newcomers to the sport even if it's only on a subconscious level.

The 6 o clock kick off thing was a joke , but also pointing out that if they do go down that route , it is problematic

The tie up with SL clubs is slightly worrying IMO , SL clubs will not be spending time and money/personel for the benefit of the game , W1g4n have quickly picked up the SWS quite simply because they know where good ' Rugby ' players come from , not as some ' charitable ' enterprise

Nobody's suggested it will be a charitable enterprise. Wigan understand that they can reap the benefits if RL develops in South Wales. Presumably, Wakefield feel the same way about Northamptonshire. There's not always a distinction between what benefits individual clubs and benefits the game, as you seem to believe. Ultimately, if the game is stronger nationwide then all clubs will benefit.

TBH I wouldn't read too much into the Wakefield link up with Northampton anyway, I believe that Northampton were Wakefield's designated partners when Super League clubs were paired with Midlands amateur teams and that's where that has come from. If Wakefield do help then great, but it's not like Wakefield are establishing and running the club or anything like that, Northampton aren't going to enter into anything that puts them in a worse position.

What's the difference between a Rugby League expansionist and a suicide bomber?




You can reason with a suicide bomber.

So far, I think the only thing we've (the amateur club, Demons and Knights) done with Wakey, is have one of our U16s games played as a curtain raiser to their game vs St Helens, in 2010. It was our opponnents, North Derbyshire, who arranged that though, not us.

We tend to be more involved with London, having three players (2 U20s 1 U1icon_cool.gif in Quins/Broncos. They've taken the occasional training session and checked the occasional game of ours.

That's partly true, but it comes back to my earlier point about the pay/costs in the semi-pro game. SWS have shown you can field a credible team of part timers outside of the m62, who can't yet command a high enough wage to give up work and go full time in SL. If only one or two of those lads make it, of course Wigan want first dibs, which will justify their investment in business terms.

Meanwhile we're attracting lads, and kids, into the sport from a much wider geographical base... And, if the local player supply grows, and the fanbase grows, those clubs may, in time, progress up the pro game, too. London hasn't been a rip roaring success, but it hasn't been a disaster either, and the cost of living there, plus the constant relocation of the pro club, makes that a special case. But even there, we have McCarthy-Scaresbrook, Tony Clubb, et al, stepping up to higher things. If each of the four expansion clubs produces 2 SL standard players in 5 years time (when kids is 13 turn 1icon_cool.gif, then the whole game is richer at every level. So what if they sign at Wigan.. Someone else will move elsewhere, and the overall size and standard of the player-pool will grow.

I say only partly right, because the SW had a partnership with Leeds. Of course there is a business motive. Build the brand, find the talent. But Gary Hetherington is also driven by a personal commitment to develop the game for its own sake and benefit. I've never dealt with the Wigan or Wakefield board, but I'd expect Gary's not alone in having a personal love for the game as well as a professional commitment to one club.

Last off, where the club and whole sport co-incide: a pro game televised with clubs in Northampton, Gateshead, Wrexham, Neath... And three new areas not yet announced... Is a much more attractive and valuable competition for broadcasters, newspapers and sponsors, than one just along the m62. That brings more money into the game, for everyone. Even at the development end, it will be so much easier to overcome the 'league isn't played here' we get from some schools, if there's a pro club down the road. But what an all-round boost if Northampton RL are covered on 'South East Tonight' and the Northampton Gazette (or whatever it's called)

Gary Hetherington - he really had sheffield's interests at heart eh? And he has wonderful things to say about clubs outside of super league!

Didn't you mean Gary Hetherington has Gary Hetherington's interests at heart?

I can only talk from direct experience of the support given to the south west, which has been fantastic, and which is over and above anything of simple self-interest. Besides, if all the SL clubs were run as effectively as Leeds, the sport would be a whole lot stronger.

You mean the Gary Hetherington who set the Sheffield Eagles up with his own money? The one who brought in and paid people like Mark Aston out of his own back pocket? The Gary Hetherington who worked selling double glazing to fund the semi-pro Sheffield Eagles? The Gary Hetherington who was coach and chief exec and owner, and who took Sheffield from literally nothing, to semi-pro then to SL before selling out to the chairman of a huge international electronics company?

That Gary Hetherington? yeah he hated Sheffield.

That's the one. Scumbag. Now he's at Leeds. Best place for him

You will find no argument with me there

The tie up with a SL club just pushes us closer to ' feeder ' status outside the top flight Joe , something I don't particularly like , but can see happening

My experience of Mr Hetherington leads me to believe he wants RL to be a sport for big city clubs rather than traditional heartland clubs that would benefit his own club as well as the sport in general , but if we suggest something similar , we are condemned for it

You may be right mate, but then, Northampton are a rather bigger catchment than some of the existing SL clubs. Leeds are partnered with the SW, and our big cities... Bristol, Plymouth, Cheltenham/Gloucester, Swindon, Bournemouth... are significant places, with our second-string towns - Exeter, Taunton, Torbay, Bath, Weymouth/Dorchester, Salisbury - punch above their weight as regional centres. If one or more of those were to head into pro RL, they wouldn't necessarily aspire to be anyone's feeder, in the longer term. It's all about establishing local roots in new towns, as I posted earlier.

I've always said, Leigh's 'natural' level is Division 3 or 4 of a national game that has clubs like Birmingham, Newcastle and Bristol in it's top division.... but the gateway has to be open for a club like Leigh to travel all the way to the top, with the right backer and the right business plan.

Just as a continuation of this, in regards of the costs/income needed for a Champ 1 club, these are recent figures on attendance:

Championship One Average attendances;

2011 – 528 (10 team competition)
2010 – 546 (11 team competition)
2009 – 690 (11 team competition)

Cross-section 2011 Average Attendances;

Whitehaven - 904 (highest)
Oldham – 644
Doncaster - 603
Gateshead – 273 (lowest)

The figures that a new club needs to aspire to, in order to live within the means of existing clubs, are not really that high. In Northampton, if all the registered players and juniors turn up with their families, they'd have more than enough. Then again, if that happened in Leigh, LSV would be full every week.

Poor old RFL, damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Do we really want to be seen as a little sport watched by the proverbial man and his whippet. We need to get behind these plans and make sure they work or we'll still be having this discussion in 50 years time.

I hope all the new Championship 1 clubs do well in 2013. I intend to watch Coventry when I can in 2012 and I hope they make it in. I may watch Northampton too, though they're slightly further away from me. Whoever the next 3 clubs into the competition are I think it will be diluting the league to start with but I think the long term benefits far outweigh any short term problems in attendance.

The main issue on this thread has been the effect that 4 potentially very weak clubs will have on the established clubs who will be competing with them next year , now even the RFL when they announced the changes suggested that we would have a drop in standards and that the sport and clubs would have to be prepared to take a ' leap of faith ' for a while , to ignore the possible problems it might cause would be stupid

As a sport we are weak enough as it is , we cannot really afford ' casualties '

Is this a new club or continuation of the Demons.

I hope this isn't just a new club without any of the people that have turned the Demons into a success as a community club.

A new venture, run by Northampton Town FC.

I wonder how long this will last when they discover that you won't make any money out of RL at this level?

They could always do what your club does every few years and go into admin?

The interview with the chairman clearly shows he's not in it to make money. He just wants to see the stadium used all year round.

That was the case under past regimes. But Carl Hall is now running the club under strict financial guidelines and we have just ended another season in the black. The players don't get picked if they don't fully commit to training and if they don't play they don't get paid. At this level that is the way it should be.
The point i am trying to make is how do we know how committed to an RL team will a soccer chairman be when it starts costing him money for possibly not much return attendance and success wise.

Great news.

You can say that about anyone that takes over a club though. And your track record on this subject has shown that you'll look for anything to talk them down.

If they can support their existing brand at break-even, it's still a win for them.

There are 3 ways for any business, in any sector, to increase its sales:
1) sell more of your existing product to existing customers;
2) sell new products to existing customers;
3) sell to new customers

A RL team in summer at a winter pro sports club ticks at least the last two of those three boxes. To football clubs, our salary cap makes RL a strategically attractive option. I've costed a C1 club, and I think it's affordable at break-even, maybe even with a small profit margin. But we're only talking plus or minus ten grand. And if a club progresses to SL in, say, 20 years, those clubs turn over 20 times as much, and as the sale of Hull FC shows, they can be worth £2-3m. Bloody good return for a soccer business.

I hope Northampton succeeds, and I'd extend that to all the expansion clubs. If nothing else, it will draw hundreds of talented, ambitious teens into
our game in new areas.

There aren't enough posts like this on RLFans. Thank you for giving me some hope that this forum is still worth reading. Brilliant post.