Yes.....I do. I was once described by the RFL as 'just the type of person to promote RL and the Club in London'......shame that there wasn't the money available eh......



Simply put, NFL thought they could create a league that would (a) give them a chance to get some young talent playing regularly and developed for the real deal....and (b) maybe turn a quick buck in the process........the London Monarchs has early success and good crowds, but laziness and bad management led to them dropping out and mostof the league moving to Germany IIRC.........
IL would have made amassive difference in London....it was just unfortunate that Whelan had had enough and Wigan came on the market. IL was the one who put the RFL on to me BTW......
Branson is not GOD by the way...he messes up more than he is successful......and I repeat, he had no idea what RL was....he just saw another potential opportunity that when it became clear was a "long game" left the club shafted.

David Hughes is an astute businessman in his field and a MASSIVE RL fan, but he has very little sales, marketing and development of brand and experience.

All of the people you have mentioned, between them, have overseen the club at some stage and have contributed SFA to marketing and promotion. Until last year, when the club had a marketing bod, that position had been empty since late 2004......and IMHO the club needs to employ a specialist on over 200k a year to drive this part of the business......not a marketing assistant on 28k a year .....






YES.......I agree that it is important to get the community involved, the Kids playing the game etc......but bums on seats are what pay players wages....well, good players wages. I would have spent at least some money on marketing...as it was, I believe our marketing manager arounf the 200-2004 period and the one we had for 18 months last year both stole a living...one is now a TV announcer on early morning/nightime PTV in australia and the other scarpered first chance she got even though she went on the record, in the RL press, 5 months earlier saying she was there for the long run.

DH seems unable to appoint anyone who wants to hang around.......


Really? I pride myself on being pretty up to date with the failings of the London RL Franchise......it helps when defending the club from off the cuff statements of inaccuracy.


Well spotted........alas, sports marketing and retail marketing are different diciplines.

So it was his long and rich heritage and history in RL that made him invest was it? He didn't see the opportunity to "get in" at ground level on something SKY TV hoped would become a national sport as against a local past time....4 years and the 2 most successful seasons in the clubs history were not backed up with the level of investment in Marketing that was required to push on and forge a propper fan base... I pitched them before I was a fan....they had a players wife acting as a marketing assistant......slap dash is an understatement.

Beacause I asked him......he didn't say hate, but he felt "player development" was a better place to spend money.

Tell me, how do you think that's working out?




As the Yanks would say, it's his dime.

To buy his own home club.....and he can't be blamed. I believe this was the missed opportunity....SKY TV and/or the RFL should have purchased his shares then, instead of letting DH pick up the tab.....look at the damage those 3 years did to the club.


Correct.....because the bearded wonder though that fans would flock into watch his team.......he didn't understand what he had bought. BTW......a pound in the Capital back then was worth nearly 2 in the north....

and your point is.....?
Prove it.......seriously.......you aren't another X-FILES nut are you?


Nope...we were called partners but had 1 season to prove ourselves...thereafter the rent clause kicked in....and it goes up every year.

...see reference to attitude to marketing

...briefly, until the RFL shafted us. What harm would it have done to let him keep his interest in the club and keep bankrolling his share? He would have spent cash on marketing, I can 100% assure you of that.


Depends on what worked you are looking at...but yes, as a business, it is reliant on the wrong source of income.

...so what?


Not saying the wrong people are in charge or were in charge. What I am saying is that at no stage has marketing been attempted correctly and giving away tickets via the Standard is not marketing...it's desperation. Marketing is giving a team of marketers a budget at the end of a season and asking them to put together a plan over 12 months that will attract new fans and encourage returnees....the recent Standard give away was messed up........they didn't cary out a survey of those who took up the offer for nearly 2 weeks.....this is a perfect example of what has gone on at the club for 16 years =...they don't have a f**king clue.


...no, it's opinion.


No....what investor is going to look at the books, see DH has been throwing 1.5 million into a black whole for 3 year or longer with fan numbers dropping off and say, YEAH, i WANT SOME OF THAT? The only hope for a New Investor is if another IL can be found.....or if my numbers come up on a Saturday.

It isn't rocket science.....it is simple business. If you don't market something, it won't sell...and for 16 years + the London RL Franchise has systematically failed to market itself.
20,000 kids is all well and good......amateur clubs all over the place is brilliant........but sub 2,000 fans isn't just down to the team being crap......the opening game of the season attracted 1,766.....and the club were top of the league FFS.

In my humble opinion, the club should have launched a massive marketing campaign in the Twickenham Area in 2006. We were no longer London........so the local borough should have been "mined"......(don't believe it is a massive Union area...it isn't.). Every resident in the borough should have been invited to a game FOC during the season and every business (of a decent size) given a free box (not food and beer) for a game......it was an OK first season.....just missed the play-offs and had a 4,200 average......with most of those being existing London RL fans from Brentford or before.....the idea of tarhgetting Union fans was a massive mistake IMO.

The club has failed as a viable business, but has been a massive success in other areas......it is just a shame that this has happened the wrong way around.
IMO of course

hudds don't get that many to be fair , and if they was in the same position as us not as many would turn up

Beg to differ.....yes, they are currently on an average of 13,174, which is down on last year, but it is a lot higher than any season since 2000.......and there is definitely a touch of the "Millwall" about the Storm fans I know...they all feel like they were made an example of unfairly. Personally, I believe if they ever want to get 15k averages there they need to cultivate that.
Currently:
Attendance across the NRL is down 5%....Melbourne down by 10% against 2010...but whilst the NRL is also down 1% against 2009, Manly are up 10%....which would suggest that 2010 was a GOOD YEAR FOR CROWDS in Melbourne.

some on here think it's criminal you still have posting rights

Quote ="gutterfax"Beg to differ.....yes, they are currently on an average of 13,174, which is down on last year, but it is a lot higher than any season since 2000.......and there is definitely a touch of the "Millwall" about the Storm fans I know...they all feel like they were made an example of unfairly. Personally, I believe if they ever want to get 15k averages there they need to cultivate that. Currently: Attendance across the NRL is down 5%....Melbourne down by 10% against 2010...but whilst the NRL is also down 1% against 2009, Manly are up 10%....which would suggest that 2010 was a GOOD YEAR FOR CROWDS in Melbourne.'" 13k is a lot higher than 12, 11, and 10k now is it and also consider 15k was a lockout at Olympic park. stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/melbourne.html Mate, you were wrong, can you ever just say something like, yes I was wrong, I don't know what I'm talking about instead of trying to out do everyone by not giving up? You said you only started following RL in 2001, and on the other page, you tried to rewrite the NRL's history to suit your agenda, I pulled it apart and corrected you, but you don't touch it. The reason you don't touch it is simple, you hate being wrong, and you have listened to so many like-minded people like yourself about the ills of RL over the years that nothing else bar your and their truth exists. Thus these same ills you write about along with your revised history are going to continue popping up regardless of what anyone says, aren't they? I'm still laughing at the marketers dream part. Last year before it all happened, the Storm were flying along, they were finally being accepted as part of Melborne and they were looking forward to opening a new stadium. The crowds were averaging over 22k at the time at a cricket ground. Then all this happened and reinforced the fear that Vics have about Murdoch and owning the Storm. Yet you think it's a Marketers dream, well that dream has cost the storm over 10k a week since April LAST year Their TV ratings when they have been shown on FTA have dropped from over 90k last year to 37k on a Sunday this year. The International shown into Vic last year rated near 300k, it was 100k less than an AFL match on another channel at the same time, this year it dropped to 86k. Yet you think it's a marketers dream. You are the wolf and I need to sell some sheeps clothing.

Quote ="gutterfax"Beg to differ.....yes, they are currently on an average of 13,174, which is down on last year, but it is a lot higher than any season since 2000.......and there is definitely a touch of the "Millwall" about the Storm fans I know...they all feel like they were made an example of unfairly. Personally, I believe if they ever want to get 15k averages there they need to cultivate that. Currently: Attendance across the NRL is down 5%....Melbourne down by 10% against 2010...but whilst the NRL is also down 1% against 2009, Manly are up 10%....which would suggest that 2010 was a GOOD YEAR FOR CROWDS in Melbourne.'" 13k is a lot higher than 12, 11, and 10k now is it and also consider 15k was a lockout at Olympic park. stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/melbourne.html Mate, you were wrong, can you ever just say something like, yes I was wrong, I don't know what I'm talking about instead of trying to out do everyone by not giving up? You said you only started following RL in 2001, and on the other page, you tried to rewrite the NRL's history to suit your agenda, I pulled it apart and corrected you, but you don't touch it. The reason you don't touch it is simple, you hate being wrong, and you have listened to so many like-minded people like yourself about the ills of RL over the years that nothing else bar your and their truth exists. Thus these same ills you write about along with your revised history are going to continue popping up regardless of what anyone says, aren't they? I'm still laughing at the marketers dream part. Last year before it all happened, the Storm were flying along, they were finally being accepted as part of Melborne and they were looking forward to opening a new stadium. The crowds were averaging over 22k at the time at a cricket ground. Then all this happened and reinforced the fear that Vics have about Murdoch and owning the Storm. Yet you think it's a Marketers dream, well that dream has cost the storm over 10k a week since April LAST year Their TV ratings when they have been shown on FTA have dropped from over 90k last year to 37k on a Sunday this year. The International shown into Vic last year rated near 300k, it was 100k less than an AFL match on another channel at the same time, this year it dropped to 86k. Yet you think it's a marketers dream. You are the wolf and I need to sell some sheeps clothing.

As I said in the NRL attendance thread, NRL crowds home and away are up this year. Down 5% is plain wrong.

:295uaay2

IL would have made amassive difference in London....it was just unfortunate that Whelan had had enough and Wigan came on the market. IL was the one who put the RFL on to me BTW......

:295uaay2

Branson is not GOD by the way...he messes up more than he is successful......and I repeat, he had no idea what RL was....he just saw another potential opportunity that when it became clear was a "long game" left the club shafted.

:295uaay2

David Hughes is an astute businessman in his field and a MASSIVE RL fan, but he has very little sales, marketing and development of brand and experience.

:295uaay2

All of the people you have mentioned, between them, have overseen the club at some stage and have contributed SFA to marketing and promotion. Until last year, when the club had a marketing bod, that position had been empty since late 2004......and IMHO the club needs to employ a specialist on over 200k a year to drive this part of the business......not a marketing assistant on 28k a year .....





:295uaay2

YES.......I agree that it is important to get the community involved, the Kids playing the game etc......but bums on seats are what pay players wages....well, good players wages. I would have spent at least some money on marketing...as it was, I believe our marketing manager arounf the 200-2004 period and the one we had for 18 months last year both stole a living...one is now a TV announcer on early morning/nightime PTV in australia and the other scarpered first chance she got even though she went on the record, in the RL press, 5 months earlier saying she was there for the long run.

:295uaay2

DH seems unable to appoint anyone who wants to hang around.......

Really? I pride myself on being pretty up to date with the failings of the London RL Franchise......it helps when defending the club from off the cuff statements of inaccuracy.

:295uaay2

Well spotted........alas, sports marketing and retail marketing are different diciplines.

:295uaay2

So it was his long and rich heritage and history in RL that made him invest was it? He didn't see the opportunity to "get in" at ground level on something SKY TV hoped would become a national sport as against a local past time....4 years and the 2 most successful seasons in the clubs history were not backed up with the level of investment in Marketing that was required to push on and forge a propper fan base... I pitched them before I was a fan....they had a players wife acting as a marketing assistant......slap dash is an understatement.

:295uaay2

Beacause I asked him......he didn't say hate, but he felt "player development" was a better place to spend money.

:295uaay2

Tell me, how do you think that's working out?



As the Yanks would say, it's his dime.

To buy his own home club.....and he can't be blamed. I believe this was the missed opportunity....SKY TV and/or the RFL should have purchased his shares then, instead of letting DH pick up the tab.....look at the damage those 3 years did to the club.

:295uaay2

Correct.....because the bearded wonder though that fans would flock into watch his team.......he didn't understand what he had bought. BTW......a pound in the Capital back then was worth nearly 2 in the north....

:295uaay2

and your point is.....?
Prove it.......seriously.......you aren't another X-FILES nut are you?


Nope...we were :295uaay2called:295uaay2 partners but had 1 season to prove ourselves...thereafter the rent clause kicked in....and it goes up every year.

:295uaay2

...see reference to attitude to marketing

...briefly, until the RFL shafted us. What harm would it have done to let him keep his interest in the club and keep bankrolling his share? He would have spent cash on marketing, I can 100% assure you of that.

:295uaay2

Depends on what worked you are looking at...but yes, as a business, it is reliant on the wrong source of income.

:295uaay2

...so what?

Not saying the wrong people are in charge or were in charge. What I am saying is that at no stage has marketing been attempted correctly and giving away tickets via the Standard is not marketing...it's desperation. Marketing is giving a team of marketers a budget at the end of a season and asking them to put together a plan over 12 months that will attract new fans and encourage returnees....the recent Standard give away was messed up........they didn't cary out a survey of those who took up the offer for nearly 2 weeks.....this is a perfect example of what has gone on at the club for 16 years =...they don't have a f**king clue.

:295uaay2

...no, it's opinion.

:295uaay2

No....what investor is going to look at the books, see DH has been throwing 1.5 million into a black whole for 3 year or longer with fan numbers dropping off and say, YEAH, i WANT SOME OF THAT? The only hope for a New Investor is if another IL can be found.....or if my numbers come up on a Saturday.

:295uaay2

It isn't rocket science.....it is simple business. If you don't market something, it won't sell...and for 16 years + the London RL Franchise has systematically failed to market itself.

:295uaay2

20,000 kids is all well and good......amateur clubs all over the place is brilliant........but sub 2,000 fans isn't just down to the team being crap......the opening game of the season attracted 1,766.....and the club were top of the league FFS.

In my humble opinion, the club should have launched a massive marketing campaign in the Twickenham Area in 2006. We were no longer London........so the local borough should have been "mined"......(don't believe it is a massive Union area...it isn't.). Every resident in the borough should have been invited to a game FOC during the season and every business (of a decent size) given a free box (not food and beer) for a game......it was an OK first season.....just missed the play-offs and had a 4,200 average......with most of those being existing London RL fans from Brentford or before.....the idea of tarhgetting Union fans was a massive mistake IMO.

:295uaay2

The club has failed as a viable business, but has been a massive success in other areas......it is just a shame that this has happened the wrong way around.

O'Hare covered this issue in RLW recently. Most of the debate here is covered there. London is vital. Long term strategy is required.The growth in player numbers is remarkable. Talk of quitting lacks insight.

Nice try.....but I deal in facts. You stated that the reason for the storms crowds last year was a couple of biggies before the "scandal".......but you and your mate west coaster are happy to count the bih=ggies this year at Eden Park and SCG....double standards eh....
Storm crowd averages listed below..they were doing fine eh.....beg to differ with the facts below and 2010 was a bitch eh


2010 14670
2000 14622
2011 13174
1999 12902
1998 12716
2008 12474
2009 11978
2001 11969
2007 11711
2006 10853
2003 9626
2002 9088
2005 8898
2004 8886

Why would I walk away from a successful career to take up a job on commission only that would never pay me what I was on, even if I filled the f*cking stoop...


As for your other "veiled" personal digs, I have no issues with the club...we communicate from time to time....and I am certainly not bitter I didn't get a job 2 years after I turned one down.
What I am is angry/bitter about is that regardless of your belief that the bearded one is a demi-god of sorts, the London RL Franchise has failed to even try.

So you use season averages intermittently... And the NRL remains tracking for record h&a attendance.

No, I use statistical facts to prove a point. In this instance, the NRL Salary cap rort by the storm did their seasons attendance no harm and they are like for like heading for another good year (with a possible increase on the cards)


......but they are still 60,000+ fans down against 2010 after 76 games.......and also round for round down on '09 & '08.

Comparing rnd by rnd. Takes no account of differing matches each year. Low rent analysis.

2011 is ahead of the h&a season average for all three years nominated.

See me on the NRL boards....this is not the place for you and eels to try (and fail) to tag team me.......

Who is eels? The guy in this thread?

Paranoid much. lol

As for attendances, your exercise is worthless.

For those interested...

Just to confirm those NRL attendance home and away averages since the SL war.

2010 192 3149927 16406 9 340851 37872 201 3490778 17367
2009 192 3084481 16065 9 351448 39050 201 3435929 17094
2008 192 2993469 15591 9 287119 31902 201 3280588 16321
2007 192 3024040 15750 9 307984 34220 201 3332024 16577
2006 180 2808055 15600 9 307466 34163 189 3115521 16484
2005 180 2964288 16468 9 312387 34710 189 3276675 17337
2004 180 2640690 14670 9 301541 33505 189 2942231 15567
2003 180 2604501 14469 9 291239 32360 189 2895740 15321
2002 180 2355184 13084 9 301014 33446 189 2656198 14054
2001 182 2412528 13256 9 269682 29965 191 2682210 14043
2000 182 2614665 14366 9 287562 31951 191 2902227 15195
1999 204 2843065 13937 9 313859 34873 213 3156924 14821
1998 240 2624359 10935 13 296905 22839 253 2921264 11546

4th column from left is home and away average for all years since the SL war.

2011 home and away average to date is 17,210. Highest in the table.

Regardless of your agenda, crowds are good to excellent since the SL war and unlike every other sport in Australia are on a consistent upward trend.

Regarding Quins, read the O'Hare article.

Gutterfax if you feel so strongly why not get all 12 quins fans to email the club ask them to give 3-4k tickets away at schools get kids to see a game?

You will lose money on the gates but make it from food,drink etc...

Your fighting a losing battle down there do something soon or quit

WTF?

You are a fool.

You have no idea about Melbourne and RL in Australia (or anywhere for that matter) at all.

Marketers dream



NSWRL and ARL didn't want expansion



News Limited was behind the cap rorting



Yet they didn't do it for Canberra when they owned them or Nth QLD and the Broncos.





The crowds at Olympic park were capped at a certain level and it was and is the worse stadium in the country, the Storm move out, and their crowds stay the same. But it's alright, according to you, last years cap rorting was a Marketers Dream.

You're happy to sit back and say everyone else involved in the club who has pumped money in is f**king clueless, and repeatedly claim the RFL has shafted London. You say the NFL didn't know the market it tried to break. You say Branson didn't know what he bought.

Yet you know exactly what should be done but aren't prepared to put your money where your mouth is and get paid for success? That's not a personal dig, it's pointing out you won't do what others who have put millions in.

You need to face the harsh reality that club RL has never succeeded in London as a spectator sport and sadly never will. It's not part of the sporting culture and there's no room for it to become so. No self confessed marketing guru will change that.

As long as David Hughes continues to bail the club out it will survive, but what happens once he's gone?

Sheffield will never beat Wigan in a big game. There'll never be a RL team in Bristol. Noone will ever beat Australia in the World Cup. These have all been said in the last 15 years. They were all as well.

Saying something will "never" happen is clueless. Some things may be hard. Some things may not have happened before, and some things may be unlikely. But to say something will never happen is just cobblers. It reveals more about the poster than about the situation he's commenting about.

Quins RL bring nothing to our sport other than usually providing a relatively simple 2 competition points to who ever play them.

So two recent Grand Finalists who have both played at the new Wembley, along with one recent play-off semi finalist and Challenge Cup finalist beaten is six points that were relatively simple for Quins RL to gain in 2011, the very antipathy of your joke.

Who said these things? What is revealed?

I see you have another alias then.