You forgot the 3 WCC wins.

Off the top of my head and I'm sure I've missed a few

WAKEFIELD
Chris Annakin
Lucas Walshaw
Danny Cowling
Matt Wildie
Kyle Trout
Kyle Wood
Ben Westwood
Jay Pitts
Wayne McDonald
Paul March
David March
Francis Stephenson
George Griffin
Darryl Griffin
Ben Gledhill
Adam Gledhill
Gareth Ellis
Keith Mason
Chris Feather
Steve Snitch
Danny Brough
Dale Morton
Nigel Wright

If we are pretending all trophies are the same, don’t forget to include our Lazenby cup and Heat-shot festive challenge victories.

For arguments sake, Wigan have produced one of the most decorated players of the superleague era -
4 SL winners medals, 5 CC winners medals, 2 WCC winners medals, 1 MOS award and 3 Lance Todd trophies.

And im sure you are very grateful

In the past that was our trouble, producing players of the highest quality and then shipping them out to other clubs.
That has been largely stopped now but seeing him in recent form I can't see Joe Mellor not going to a top four club.
Still though, the Wigan production line is producing some of the best quality RL players there are.

Mellor has taken time to adjust to losing a chunk of his electrifying pace to a bad knee injury but seems to be getting there at the minute.

At one time the lad looked as exciting as Sam Tomkins in the reserves comp so its great to see him making strides.

Players like long and harris turned into much better half backs once the lost their pace and you can see players like Myler and Mcguire develop the skills through their careers. Its just a pity we can't seem to produce them with everything from the off. Eastmond was perhaps the nearest I've seen, but he buggered off to the union.

Talent wise Eastmond could have been anything but he just wasn't tough enough. Give him Rob Burrow's attitude and he could have been immense.

When the old 'who's better, Tomkins or Eastmond' debate used to go around I always plumped for Sam based solely on his attitude, guts and sheer will to win.

Where did I say our 19s are head and shoulders above everyone else? I clearly said our Youth production is head and shoulders above everyone else. From scholarship upwards. Please don't try and put words into my mouth.

Where did I say our 3 trophies is better than Leeds' 3 trophies? I was simply pointing out that over the last 3 years, Wigan have been as successful as Leeds, when it comes to winning trophies.

Ryan Hampshire is younger than Ward, and has yet to get an extended run in the first team, I will make a bold prediction here, Hampshire will win more in his career than Ward will. And will also play more for the National side than Ward will. Should injuries not play a major part in his career. My opinion obviously, but I base that from reports of people much more knowledgeable than myself within the game who have labelled Ryan as 'Exceptional'.

Once again, You keep making assumptions about my posts. I haven't said at any point that Wigan produce teams to win youth trophies. You were the one fixated on trophies, so I brought up a stat showing that the Wigan Academy team has been the most succesful over the last 5 years, thus providing success for the first team. It's no coincidence that since we started dominating the Academy grade we have turned the corner in the first team.

And developing 2 first grade players would be a succesful youth setup? Maybe for Wakefield or Castleford. But not at a top level club. The backbone of any successful club is a group of homegrown talent.

I just hope the weight of expectation doesn't get to Hampshire because his introduction on a regular basis in to the side may come at a time when our best player of the past 20 years has moved on.

He's meant to be a cracking talent but Sam Tomkins is the toughest act anybody could have to follow and our fellow Wigan fans aren't renowned for patience.

Tough test but if he's as good as rumoured he can cope.

Here

And used it as part of your evidence that Wigans youth production was better. In spite of the fact they have had the same success (if we treat all trophies as having the same worth, which is ridiculous) and Wigan have had fewer youth developed players experience that success.

That’s lovely, and im sure Ryan Hampshire appreciates your support. As I said Stevie Ward already has a grand final winners medal and a run in the first team. Ryan Hampshire is the same age as Liam Sutcliffe, who is also playing in the first team for Leeds and Sutcliffe also played when the Leeds U19’s scored 40 points against Ryan Hampshire’s Warriors. Now I hope Hampshire goes on to be a brilliant player, a world class player. But he isn’t yet, and isn’t evidence of Wigans youth development being head and shoulders above everyone else’s. Because other teams also produce good players, some of them better than Wigans.
You have missed the point again. Wigan may have been the most successful side at winning youth trophies, but that’s not translated in to the first team. Wigan may have won 4 out of 5 of the last academy GF’s, Leeds have won 4 out of 5 of the first team GF’s including 3 in a row, appeared in 3 challenge cup finals, a LLS, and a WCC. Wigan have a Challenge Cup, a LLS and a GF in that time.

So again, tell us why the Wigans youth development has been head and shoulders better than the club which has been by far the most successful side of the past 5 years, who has introduced top quality players like Hall, Watkins, Jones-Bishop, Clarkson, Ward, and now Singleton, Sutcliffe, Minns and Baldwinson,

Ryan Hampshire - part of Wigans production line or product of Normanton who went to the club who offered him the most money ??? Hardly a "Wigan lad"

Wigan have announced the signing of Leigh's Sam Hopkins this morning.

Class player.

that Leeds have been so successful over the last decade. Since Ian Lenegan has taken over at Wigan, he has put the emphasis on youth development in Wigan, and this has seen us dominate the Academy competition over recent years. Since we have started to dominate the Academy, it has seen a turnaround in fortune for our first team. With 3 trophies in 3 years. More than likely to be 4 in 4, unless we have a serious capitulation in the next 8 years. Surely, that shows that by having a successful Academy side, this will translate into success in the senior side. It worked for Leeds, and they are still reaping the benefits of that. And it will work for Wigan over the next 10 years, as we will be there, or there abouts for a few years to come now.

Here.




What is meaningless is bringing up a player who has down nothing at all in the game whatsoever as an example of Wigans youth development being head and shoulders above anyone elses. We've all seen a million and one players absolutely kill it at youth level and never be able to make the step up or go on to disappoint at first grade. Ryan Hampshire isnt even a first grade player, how on earth is he evidence of Wigans youth development? Stevie Ward is 19 years old, has played numerous times for the first team and even lined up and played in a GF. How on earth isnt he evidence of Leeds youth development?


To say it is head and shoulders above everyone else is dismissing everyone else. Especially considering that it clearly isnt head and shoulders above everyone elses.

No it isnt. Look back a little further than that and Leeds were always winning academy and youth competitions, but they werent fed in to the first team's well. Thats why we saw players like Fozzard, Carvell, Moore, Robinson, leaving. We then changed that, and good young players were blooded correctly and Leeds saw success, and leeds continuation of that success is based on blooding the very best of those it may be convenient for you to put Leeds success down to the 'golden generation' and pretend Leeds arent developing those players any more, but it would be nonsense .

:3nitarby



I'm struggling, please help me out here Smokey.

I love a good Quote-off.

Here

I really don’t know how it could be clearer. It’s a pretty unequivocal statement.

I love the smell of quotes in the morning.

I like pie.

I really don't see that sentence being written there, Smokey. Could you maybe quote the actual sentence where I said

'Wigan Have the best u19s'

That'd be a great help.

Here

Unless of course you think there is something else that will go into making up the U19’s other than the U19 players, U19 coaches and U19 facilities?

It will be interesting to see whether the Wigan production line will continue under the new youth structure that they voted for.

www.therhinos.co.uk/news/20702.php#.UcRWDPmkpsM Leeds Rhinos 19 man squad is entirely made up of players eligible to play for England and includes 15 players from the club's academy structure with only Mitch Achurch, Jamie Peacock, Ian Kirke and Zak Hardaker not developed by the Rhinos. The average age of the 19 man squad to face the Giants is just 24 and, if selected, Minchella would become the first Leeds player to appear for the club who was born in the Super League era. The squad in full is: 1. Zak Hardaker 2. Ben Jones-Bishop 5. Ryan Hall 7. Rob Burrow 9. Paul McShane 10. Jamie Peacock (c) 11. Jamie Jones-Buchanan 12. Carl Ablett 17. Ian Kirke 18. Chris Clarkson 19. Mitch Achurch 21. Richard Moore 22. Jimmy Keinhorst 23.Brad Singleton 26. Liam Sutcliffe 27. Thomas Minns 28. Jordan Baldwinson 30. Alex Foster 31. Elliot Minchella Does that mean we win the grand final now or something?

www.therhinos.co.uk/news/20702.php#.UcRWDPmkpsM Leeds Rhinos 19 man squad is entirely made up of players eligible to play for England and includes 15 players from the club's academy structure with only Mitch Achurch, Jamie Peacock, Ian Kirke and Zak Hardaker not developed by the Rhinos. The average age of the 19 man squad to face the Giants is just 24 and, if selected, Minchella would become the first Leeds player to appear for the club who was born in the Super League era. The squad in full is: 1. Zak Hardaker 2. Ben Jones-Bishop 5. Ryan Hall 7. Rob Burrow 9. Paul McShane 10. Jamie Peacock (c) 11. Jamie Jones-Buchanan 12. Carl Ablett 17. Ian Kirke 18. Chris Clarkson 19. Mitch Achurch 21. Richard Moore 22. Jimmy Keinhorst 23.Brad Singleton 26. Liam Sutcliffe 27. Thomas Minns 28. Jordan Baldwinson 30. Alex Foster 31. Elliot Minchella Does that mean we win the grand final now or something?