Agree. Just because they play in the NRL doesn't automatically make them better than others.

I wouldn't have Luke or Tom Burgess ahead of Hill and it's a bit of a 50/50 between T Burgess and Huby on the bench.

I've put G Burgess on the bench because I think he'd offer more impact off the bench than Hill would.

Wait a minute, when did Kevin Sinfield get knighted?

It's not a case of who is the better player, it's a case of mentality and psychology. Most of the England team are weaker than their Aussie counterparts if you go through (any variation of) the team man-for-man, let's at least put lads out there who are familiar with beating the Aussies and who know how to do it.

People on here seem to have forgotten about Michael Cooper, the star prop forward for the St. George-Illawarra Dragons. His experience and prestige in the NRL will draw big crowds to England's matches, and enable him to compete with the Australian and New Zealand forwards. The same argument applies to the Burgess twins, George and Thomas. Of the UK based props only Christopher Hill should be allowed to play, as a token of respect for the important role Super League plays in providing quality forward recruits for the NRL.

I agree with the view that Samuel Levi Tomkins might be an asset in the halves.

Thus I would select the following team, which would include both of the Burgess twin steamrollers in the 17:

[iZachary Hardaker

Ryan Hall, Michael Shenton, Kallum Watkins, Thomas Briscoe

Samuel Tomkins
Gareth Widdop

Sean O'Loughlin
Benjamin Westwood, Elliot Whitehead,
James Graham, James Roby, George Burgess[/i

Interchange: [iThomas Burgess, Christopher Hill, Brett Ferres, Darryl Clarke[/i

Remainder of squad: [iThomas Makinson, Leroy Cudjoe, Matthew Smith, Robert Burrow, Michael Cooper, Craig Huby, Carl Ablett[/i

Who are they? I've never heard of them.

I have heard of:

[iZak Hardaker
Tom Briscoe
Sam Tomkins
Ben Westwood[/i
[iTom Burgess
Chris Hill[/i
[iTommy Makinson
Matty Smith
Mike Cooper[/i

Or at least, those are the names that appear on the birth cerificates.

To use incorrect names like that is a sign of complete contempt and disrespect, you should be ashamed of yourself.

So you have seen their birth certificates, have you? When was that exactly?

O'Loughlin is almost done, need to get Joe Westerman in to lock forward.

Cripes, trolls trolling trolls in this thread. Joy.

Not sure hardaker will feature to be honest. If he doesn't get banned I think he will be given the off season to stay out the limelight and get his head together. He would get slammed by the Aussie media and I'm not sure how he would cope with it. With that in mind I would go with the following

Tomkins
Briscoe
Watkins
Ratchford
Hall
Widdop
Smith
Hill
Roby
Graham
Ferres
Westwood
Oloughlin

Clark
G burgess
Cooper
Farrell

Included Briscoe over charnley/makinson because of his Leeds partnership with Watkins. Smith is there for his kicking game. Cooper has come on leaps and bounds so deserves to be in. Farrell gets the last bench spot because in all honesty it was hard to think of someone up to the job, and Farrell doesn't miss many tackles and defence will be important. Ratchford over shenton because shenton has been there and been showed up before and ratchford is more likely to create something out of nothing.

Tomkins, Charnley, Watkins, Shenton, Hall, Widdop, Brough/Sneyd, Graham, Roby, G Burgess, Ferres, Westwood, O'Loughlin

Subs: Clark, Hill, Lynch, Farrell

Squad: Hardaker, Makinson, Ratchford, T. Burgess, Westerman, Whitehead.

If it's a 23 man squad, if 24. Add in one of Cooper or Huby.

That is utter tosh!

Shenton is defensively sound and when he went off injured in the Four Nations, England fell to pieces versus the Aussies when we had a good chance of winning.

He has always performed well at international level.

I fear for Shenton's life if he comes up against Inglis or Jennings. A couple of years ago George Carmont was tearing him a new one.

Better bet than Ratchford though, surely?

He played against Inglis in the aforementioned 4 Nations game I just spoke about. He kept him quiet for most of the game and as soon as he went off, they ran riot down that side.

Definitely. Don't get me wrong, he's still probably the best option there (Cudjoe's form still dodgy?) so anyone we put there will probably have a bad time.

I think a Ferres/Wardle/Hall combo down the left would be really powerful. I'm obviously biased, but at 21/22 Wardle is very nearly international standard..... If he's English, obviously...

But Inglis being quiet had little to do with Shenton in that game.
The flow of the game did not go that way early on, Shenton was hardly the player keeping Australia in check, the Aussies were building up to breaking England before Shenton went off and as they usually do put the cleaners through England in the last 20 minutes.
The fact that England chose 4 Forwards on the Bench and had to re shuffle the team had more to do with the slaughter than Shentons ability, although he did have a solid game that day.

[iAfter ten minutes of sustained pressure on Australia's defence England were through, Burgess again charging over under the posts from close range.[32 Sinfield's kick added the Extras so once again England had the lead at 16-14. A little over three minutes later it was Australia attacking England's line when their fullback Billy Slater dove over from dummy-half, the lead changing again to be back with the Kangaroos.[33 Thurston couldn't get the conversion so Australia's lead stayed at only two points, 18-16. In the fifty-eighth minute the Kangaroos were on the attack again when Thurston chipped ahead from twenty metres out for Brett Morris to chase through and score in the corner behind the England defence. The conversion attempt by Thurston was missed so Australia lead 22-16 with twenty-one minutes of the match remaining. Shortly after the kick-off following the try England's Michael Shenton suffered a head clash when trying to tackle front-row forward Ben Hannant and the game was halted as he was stretchered unconscious from the field.[/i

From there England unraveled.

My Team from what's available - Definitely weaker than the WC - Im also taking it as Brough not being available


1. Hardaker - Obviously if he doesn't get banned Id let by gones be by gones
2. Briscoe - Wins my choice as the second winger simply because he already is used to that partnership wit KW
3. Watkins
4. Shenton - Reward for good form and the genuine lack of anyone else
5. Hall
6. Tomkins - I know hes a full back predominantly but as an allround play I rate Hardaker better than any of our halves and Tomkins has been dodgy at times in INT games at 1. This is the best option in my opinion
7 - Widdop
8. G Burguess
9. Roby - Probably one of our strongest areas right now - But I still would go with Roby
10. Graham
11. Ferres
12. Farrell
13. O'Loughlin - And make him Captain - Yes he is coming to the end of his career and he is no long term solution but if he is fit id still pick him

14. Bateman
15. Clark
16. Hill
17. Id be very tempted to give Walmsley a shot

Squad

T Burguess
Cooper
Burrow - Cover for half back and hooker
Joel Tomkins - Yes a gamble but if he did get a shot im sure he will match up well and the cover for SR and Centre
Joe Burguess - Yes over charnley - I know charnley can be devastating in attack but has been found our by the Aussie too and with him not been my first choice and this being a squad position that might not even get a game id take Joe, I felt against the Roosters for Wigan he did a god job - The experience
Ablett or another half back

1. Hardaker
2. Makinson
3. Watkins
4. Shenton
5. Hall
6. Tomkins
7. Widdop
8. Burgess G
9. Roby
10. Graham
11. Westwood
12. Ablett
13. O'Loughlin (C)

14. Clark
15. Hill
16. Burgess L
17. Ferres

18. Burrow
19. Huby
20. Cooper
21. Farrell
22. Crabtree
23. Burgess T
24. Lomax
25. Ratchford

I think it's also a mistake not having a warm up game. Sam Tomkins and Gareth Widdops season is over. That's a full 7 weeks sitting without a game for two of England's top players.

If shenton comes up against inglis or jennings, he won't just be outplayed.

He'll die.

Put him against most centres, I think inglis come out on top. He's one of the best players, ever. Defensively, Shentons probably the best centre we have.

For me

1. Hardaker (if not banned)
2. Charnley
3. Watkins
4. Shenton
5. Hall
6. Tomkins
7. Widdop
8. Hill
9. Roby
10. Graham
11. Ablett
12. Ferres
13 O'loughlin

14. Clark
15. Huby
16. G Burgess
17. Bateman

As a warm up, before he announces his squad, we could have a trial match, England v.s England knights. More people would come to see it, it would be more competitive.

Knights

1. Ratchford
2. Makinson
3. Murphy
4. Wardle
5. Briscoe
6. Sneyd
7. Mellor
8. Taylor
9. Mcclorum
10. Amor
11. Whitehead
12. Tomkins
13. Westerman

14. Lunt
15. Walmsley
16. Adam Walker
17. Liam Farrell

McNamara can lay down the gauntlet, his is my strongest 17, but places are up for grabs. The knights would give it to them.

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Hardaker
Hall
Widdop
Smith
G Burgess
Roby
Graham
Ferres
Farrell
O'Loughlin

Clark
Hill
Westwood (though would be tempted to put Bateman or Whitehead in)
Another prop (Walmsley, T Burgess, Taylor, Cooper, Huby)

If Ben Harrison doesn't make the squad at least i will be gobsmacked! along with Hill recently he has been carrying Warrington's pack. Also surprised that nobody has mentioned Chris Bridge

Its odd that for once England look to have more strength in depth in the outside backs than the forwards. Back row looks poor to me, whatever combinations are picked. I wouldn't pick Luke Burgess at prop as I think we have better options, but I'd definitely have Cooper in the squad.