Warrington Wolfs have left the number 5 shirt vacant.

But if he is off to Union, purely for money, he's scum.

Sure he is. He's scum for wanting to provide a comfortable lifestyle for himself and his family. What a total b*stard. He's worse than Hitler, Stalin and Satan combined

People working to earn money!!!

Whatever next!!!

Warrington Wolves with no overseas players

Hey! That's not funny. Don't joke about that, you'll scare the children.

That the point i addressed (the one repeated below for you by roofaldo) was incorrect.

You would have known that had you not been so desperate to defend Hull KRs recruitment of 10 overseas players to cover for their faillings in bringing through and/or introducing young british players in to SL that you didnt actually read what was said.

Whats that people say about protesting too much?

and just to address your point, the quota and natural wastage would have already happened had clubs not been so ill-equipped and inadequately prepared that they needed exemptions and a slower gradual decrease in the quota. It is clubs short-term self interest in inadequate forward planning that has delayed the games improvement and set it back a minimum of 3 years

But the biggest problem with English RL is the strength in depth. The England side has talented players, but the players the level below them are nowhere near as good.

You look at the Aus side, and they could put out a 2nd, 3rd probably even a 4th choice side and they'd still be able to play at an incredibly high level.

The quality of the league will probably have to dip in the short term yes, but if that means that there are more players of a good standard playing across the league, then the intensity of playing a decent side every single week will begin to produce better players and have them used to a similar level of intensity that the Aussies and Kiwi's get used to.

But as usual, most of what you've written is just bizarre...



If a coach wants to select an experienced player he selects him because he's experienced, not because he's an experienced Aussie, simply because he's experienced.

Given the remit of a SL coach which I think we can all agree on being to win games and considering the physical demands on players of a long tough SL season, if this hypothetical coach does not carefully introduce young players to gain experience, when they are required they are likely to be found lacking and consequently the team may well lose. Losing games not being in the remit of an SL coach that coach's policy re young players will come under scrutiny.

It is therefore apparent that a good coach will prepare players as well as possible for the eventuality that they are called upon to perform at SL standard, if he does not then the losers will be the club which ill prepares young players. It then becomes the responsibilty of the player to perform to a standard that the coach selects him because he's proven himself to be the best player in his position (a bit like Kris Welham did).

So why would a coach not want to prepare young players for first team SL rugby?

Bill why do you bother?
Dont you realise that if you starve him of the oxygen of a fight he will stop?

Maybe his beef is that all SL CEOs met in Perpignan in 2007 to agree the changes and specifically to agree to close the loopholes that allowed exemptions/dispensations etc. Hull KR were one of the clubs at that meeting which agreed the principle unanimously. 3 and a half years later, some clubs are still scrabbling around to [uopen[/u loopholes and actively lobby for new exemptions to achieve quite the opposite of this agreed principle. I applaud your optimism that at some point the agreed quotas will be met, but I don't see clubs enacting the principle, do you? As long as clubs are actively avoiding delivering what they signed up to, and in some cases actually going in the opposite direction, we'll continue having this "discussion".

I don't see many ways around it though, the problem at the minute is the exemptions for players who were already under contract.

If a player hasn't trained in the federation for 3 years under the age of 21, he counts on the quota. Nothing to do with nationality, no-ones grandparents are involved, just where they trained.

It'll just take a couple of years for players to retire for things to be the way they are supposed to be.

Hallelujah

Have i said anything different? There is however a limit to the amount of 'experienced' players this country produces because we are so averse to giving our young players experience. Which means that to rely on 'experienced' players means to rely largely on overseas 'experienced' players.


Or they arent introduced and clubs rely on overseas players.

it is very rare that a player with 0 experience proves themselves the better than a player with lots of experience. Why do young players, not at 17/18 but at 19/20/21 need to wait for injuries before getting an opportunity to learn and get the experience they need to improve to be better than a 24+ year old overseas player.

because it has become secondary. Where a coach is praised for spotting 'talent' at 22/23/24 from the nrl or lower leagues in Aus, rather than criticised for not being able to prepare any british player

[url=http://www.league.quins.co.uk/news/12701.phpLuke Ambler confirmed on one year loan to Quins RL from Leeds.[/url

BTW, madtigerman. you've got Hardaker listed both as an In and an Out for Leeds.

Maybe he's done that with Hardaker as he's signed full time but is being shipped out straight back to Fev on loan??

An out for Cas with the retirement today of Jimmy Evans.

Quote ="StuMain"An out for Cas with the retirement today of Jimmy Evans.'" www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... eford.html

Quote ="StuMain"An out for Cas with the retirement today of Jimmy Evans.'" www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague ... eford.html

becuase Zak Hardaker was signed my leeds and went back out on loan to featherstone rovers.

You've immediately answered your own question






Which is a risk a club can take but if that club then struggles because of fielding inexperienced players when needed they only have themselves to blame.



It is even rarer that a coach will have absolutely no idea of the ability of a player in their first team squad without seeing him in a SL game, so to answer your Billy Slater problem, it will be abundantly obvious that the player has such talent and given the remit of a SL coach being to win games (which I think we agree on) why would a coach not select his best players in order to win more games?



Where does this praise for "spotting 'talent' at 22/23/24 from the nrl or lower leagues in Aus" emanate from? Or did you just make that bit up? Don't tell me, I already know.

No I haven't. You have confused yourself again.

or they could just keep upping the amount of overseas players they have, then sign some players from other SL clubs and argue that only introducing 1 academy player as a regular first team player in 5 years isnt a pathetic total and go on to make lots of silly arguments about how it isnt a bad thing they have to rely on 10 overseas players.

No, you are confusing talent and potential. You are confusing a players ability right now, with a players ability 3/4 years down the line after 3/4 years of SL experience. You are as usual confused.

i know you know, you said it.

I applaud your optimism, but you seem to think that a) the goalposts are fixed, and b) clubs are enacting the spirit of the principles they all signed up to when the actual evidence is that some will have twice as many overseas players next year than they agreed to in 2007.

Some clubs will put their energy into both lobbying the RFL for exemptions and rule changes and seeking legal get-outs rather than getting on and enacting what they agreed to, and that's just the way it is, unfortunately. If you really believe that in a "a couple of years" all clubs will have 5 overseas players, you're mad. This is what was agreed 3 and a half years ago and we're no nearer to it now than we were then, in fact some clubs are further away.

No. First you say you didn't specifically mean experienced Aussies and then you immediately say it's the experienced Aussies that are the problem.



Now, you see, that's not true is it? No club can arbitrarily decide to up the amount of overseas players they have without regard to the rules laid down by the RFL can they? Hull KR due to circumstances will have more "overseas" players next year than this. It is still less than they had 3/4 years ago, a fact you might not like but still, there it is. And you've been arguing incessantly about signing English players from other clubs, but when Hull KR do it, this is in some way less than satisfactory.





No I'm not, [uyou[/u are suggesting a player of Billy Slater's ability would be overlooked, not because there are better players in the squad, but because there are more experienced players in the squad. You even went so far as to suggest that the next Billy Slater would be overlooked in favour of Shad Royston. Well if a coach does that they deserve everything coming to them which likely would be more losses (not in a SL coaches remit, do you agree?) and probably lose the player. Why would any coach, who wants to keep his job, do that?



I know. You made it up.

Please.....what circumstances are these? The regulations that were agreed and have since been pretty much ignored by all are there to assist with the development of English talent. HKA seem more preoccupied with trying to get back their glory years and win something now...rather than building slowly. I understand that a SL win or a CC win would probably boost attendances at Craven Park......but as a business model, it's very short termist...........and if you go another season without a trophy, will you continue to go down this route?
I know HKA are not the only team doing this, even little old skint Quins RL have 6 overseas players signed so far for 2011......but the blind defence of 10 overseas players by some on here does attract more criticism......

I know it's easy for a Quins fan to say as we have had a lot of our "Englishness" thrust upon us, but I would rather spend another 5 years slowly building a local squad that can compete rather than going to Wembley with a team full of overseas players....we've done that...It didn't work.

you should try and read it again.

well it is what we are seeing happening, Hence Hull KA agreeing 3 and a half years ago to have a maximum of 5 overseas players by now, and going into neext season with 10
yes, Hull KA will have 10 overseas players, it is a pathetic total from a supposed heartland club.
i could just repeat that it is preferable to signing overseas players and less preferable to bringing through your own juniors but you would only ignore it.

No, im suggesting the Billy Slater who made his debut isnt as good as the Billy Slater who now plays for Australia. Im suggesting that the Billy Slater who made his debut wasnt the best fullback in the world when he made his debut. Im suggesting the Billy Slater who made his debut wasnt the best we will see of Billy Slater and that he still had lots of development to go when he made his debut. Im even going as far as suggesting that the Billy Slater who made his debut wasnt as good as Robbie Ross or Steve Turner. Im saying it took a concious decision to work with the raw materials Slater had to make the Billy Slater of today, even if it meant more experienced players, who were a bit better at the time (due to their experience) needed to take a step back.

That is where you have got confused. Im not suggesting that the Billy Slater of 2010 is being ignored, im suggesting the Billy Slater of 2003 wouldnt have been given the opportunity in this country and as such would never have become the Billy Slater of 2010. You see the difference now between talent and potential?

Because youth development and there introduction doesnt pay off immediately. In this country, 2003 Billy Slater goes out and makes a few mistakes (as you would expect from a rookie) then the manager is binned off for not playing Robbie Ross and he isnt around in 2008 to see Billy Slater win the golden boot, so in this country he doesnt get the chance, or if he does he is canned after making a few errors and an overseas player is brought in. Thats because of the short-termist self-interest in SL that see's fans trying to justify binning a 23 year old british stand off with 30+ appearances for a 24 year old Aussie stand off with 40+ appearances.

I imagine that at the end of next season Vella and Galea will leave the club, regardless of this fixation you have with Rovers winning everything now.




The "blind defence" of Hull KR is solely down to the criticism being levelled at the club with no regard, none at all, for the circumstances which brought Hull KR to this position and the total disregard for the things the club have delivered on in such a short space of time. Things which clubs with access to SL money for three times as long have abjectly failed to deliver on.

There has been only so much money available, what Hull KR have done is deliver real improvements to the stadium, fielded a competitive side and actually brought quite a lot to the competition. The youth system while in the national leagues was relatively poor (for reasons that all but the most myopic anti Rovers supporter can understand) and these things do not change overnight. Now we have parity with our neighbours in attractiveness of the club to young players things are improving. This year our under 18's played in the top tier of their competition. Things are improving. But you can't just open a box of SL ready young English players, as some would like us to do, even if their own clubs don't.

There are clubs which receive a fraction of the criticism that Hull KR do that have no excuse, no good reason at all for fielding more than 5 overseas players next season. I have been told ad infinitum by our kipper loving friend that Leeds youth system is wonderful. It should be, they've had years to build it and no need to rob Peter to Pay Paul to finance it. They will have more overseas players next year than this. Not only that, one player coming in will be 33 at the start of the season, and the same hypocrit will then lecture about young English players not getting a game at Hull KR.

Incidentally I notice that young Luke Ambler will be making way for Cross to fit in at Leeds next season. I wonder what spin the kipper meister will put on that one.





No you wouldn't. If somebody offered you a team capable of a Wembly or Grand final apearance you'd snap their hand off. The role of a SL club is to win games, it is not a factory for English (or even local, as you put it) players, what is the point in that?