That really progresses the discussion, and opens up a whole moral/ethical debate.

I absolute understand that sentiment, and for me the real exam question to ask is 'would cocaine as a legal substance really be any more damaging to society than tobacco or alchohol?' There's an arguement that legalising it would mean more people do it, so any current issues it cocain causes would be magnified beyond measure, and there's also an arguement that it would then drive those that currently do coke to something stronger (it being against the rules is part of its attraction).

I do like the basic principles of legalising and taxing it, but I'd need convincing by someone much more knowledgeable than me about the potential negatives and findings from other countries where it's legalised.

One thing I 100% agree on - the current laws and systems aren't working - it's no longer even taboo or hidden - the folk who are doing it have no shame about it, it's not even a consideration anymore, it's just something they do. But then we're living in an age where finding hook ups on the internet through 'tinder' is not only socially acceptable, it's openly discussed and encouraged (when did internet dating stop being something only a complete weirdo would do?), and when did being a fat slag has stopped being an insult and has become something to celebrate, it's now a pre-requisite for getting famous on shows like Love Island and Big Brother...... The world has gone stark raving mad!!!

Quote ="SmokeyTA"its not really hard to find examples www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 37926.html as for violence about 10k people die per year from alcohol related diseases in the uk, there are about 600k alcohol dependent persons in the uk, there are about three quarters of a million alcohol related criminal offences per year, 64% of all stranger violence are alcohol related, 70% of all violent crime at weekends is alcohol related. Hypocrisy over what substances people choose to abuse does nothing to help anyone.'" The hypocrisy of our attitude to these substances summed up very succinctly - I couldn't agree more. It's clear that the so-called war on drugs has been comprehensively lost, and as a result, the trade is entirely illegal and conducted in the shadows by crims and gangsters, with no controls, safety standards, or taxation; meanwhile, people will stand in the pub, downing their 8th pint, waxing lyrical about the evils of weed or coke, with absolutely no sense of the damage their own drug of choice does to society when misused. People who work in an environment where drug use is prohibited will be sanctioned by their employer - rightly so - and Chase and Walker are at worst dim for allowing themselves to be caught; but the wider debate about the decriminalisation of drugs needs to be conducted in a grown-up way, without all the ill-informed moralising from people with little understanding of the issues and views on the matter that they've rented from the Daily Mail.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"its not really hard to find examples www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 37926.html as for violence about 10k people die per year from alcohol related diseases in the uk, there are about 600k alcohol dependent persons in the uk, there are about three quarters of a million alcohol related criminal offences per year, 64% of all stranger violence are alcohol related, 70% of all violent crime at weekends is alcohol related. Hypocrisy over what substances people choose to abuse does nothing to help anyone.'" The hypocrisy of our attitude to these substances summed up very succinctly - I couldn't agree more. It's clear that the so-called war on drugs has been comprehensively lost, and as a result, the trade is entirely illegal and conducted in the shadows by crims and gangsters, with no controls, safety standards, or taxation; meanwhile, people will stand in the pub, downing their 8th pint, waxing lyrical about the evils of weed or coke, with absolutely no sense of the damage their own drug of choice does to society when misused. People who work in an environment where drug use is prohibited will be sanctioned by their employer - rightly so - and Chase and Walker are at worst dim for allowing themselves to be caught; but the wider debate about the decriminalisation of drugs needs to be conducted in a grown-up way, without all the ill-informed moralising from people with little understanding of the issues and views on the matter that they've rented from the Daily Mail.

I can completely relate to this, it's the same at my amateur club. Coke has become the norm for a large section of our team. As one of the older ones I'm quite happy with a few pints on a Saturday, & their use of coke doesn't adversely effect me or anyone around us from what I've noticed when out (alcohol was generally worse for that).

We also have a few lads who go on courses of steroids from time to time, and judging by some of the red-faced maniacs I come up against, it's the same at other amateur clubs. T5's, copious amounts of energy drinks, painkillers are all knocking around the changing room pre-match.

In countries where drugs are legalised there is less gang activity, less gang related violence and murders, fewer kidknappings, fewer hospitalisations and deaths because drugs are monitored and are safer, people can be educated more easily and widely on drugs and their use and effects, the NHS/Govt can earn money from their trade.....

There is not once single shred of evidence that the prohibition of drugs is a positive for society. NOT ONE!

Yes, this pretty much sums it up.

A professional sportsperson is expected to adhere to certain rules / restrictions, if they can't they they can expect a ban.

Well I don't think he needs an arm round the shoulder and trip to the bahamas treatment.

Exactly this.

Faux Daily Mail outrage noted.

Remember the old 80% of facts are made up on the spot line? Do you have anything to back up your supposition which would make professional rugby players more likely to short come than the general public?
It is sad to think that we have become blaze about the effects of our choices. The Mexican drugs war seems a long way away from a night out on Kings St (I know that will make you chuckle) but the links are real. The easy answer is decriminalization but that simply allows the criminals an outlet for the money that they earn from prostitution and the like. If you want to see what decriminalization looks like have a look at the figures for trafficked girls in the Netherlands or any of the other negatives that encouraging anti-social behaviour creates.

It's because of the vast amount of roids they're jacking up and charlie that they're tooting.

If the players want to take coke & avoid a positive test all they have to do is forward plan.

But we can all surely agree that some of the players aren't the sharpest knives in the box.

Jeez, we have Jamie Peacock on the B.B.C. Rugby Panel & he's one of the brighter ones.

Forward Planning Boys.

I see Schoey and Ryan McGoldrick have had a bit of a twitter spat on this (McGoldrick claiming Schoey is just chasing headlines and a payday). But both pretty much admit it's rife, with McGoldrock also citing performance enhancing as being an issue too - he even claims 'Leeds favourite son' was caught and covered up....

can you tell me what benefits you see in recreational drugs like cocaine other than the dealer making money from someones expense,
I can see a controlled usage within medicinal no different to morphine, alcohol has similar effects when consumed in excess but nothing like the usage of cocaine

Alcohol is a recreational drug. Whatever benefits in principal you would argue for in favour of alcohol would be arguable for any recreational drug.

A bad pint will give you the 5hits , a bad dose of cocaine could kill you

Which is a good reason for legalising and regulating cocaine to ensure standards of purity.

Alcohol is the biggest risk factor for death, ill health and disability amongst 18-49 year olds. 70% of all violent crime on a weekend or night is alcohol related, 64% of all stranger violence is alcohol related. 704k violent crimes where the offender was under the influence of alcohol, which is 53% of all violent crime.

1.1m hospital admissions a year are due to alcohol related illness or injury, 339k hospital admissions because of alcohol overdose.

over 600k alcoholics in the uk, around 10k deaths per year from alcohol overdose or alcohol related illness. Alcohol related crime costs the country 13billion, alcohol related illness costs the NHS another 3.5billion.

Well actually if a pint was mixed with a number of dangerous chemicals it certainly could kill you. Thankfully we have a system by which it's production and distribution is regulated to make it as safe as possible. If we, as a society, knew that alcohol was being served with life threatening chemicals but chose not to regulate it and resisted any attempts to make it safer that would make us pretty bonkers wouldn't it?

This is getting to sound like the old school essay "If alcohol was a new product it would not be licensed" discuss. Alcohol is a dangerous thing that for cultural reasons we accept but try to minimise the risk of. The problem is that the alcohol argument muddies any discussion of other recreational drugs.
In California they have just licensed weed for public sale but without any of the health warnings that have to go on tobacco and alcohol packaging or the easy ability to detect use in drivers. You would think that we would let the scientific evidence of the dangers drive our thinking but that is not the case. Too often we simply give in to those who shout loudest or have the biggest cheque books or whatever is easiest.
It is very difficult to stop people using recreational drugs. Perhaps this thread should split in two. On One hand there are issues associated with recreational use and on the other hand the performance enhancing/changing aspect. I use performance changing because some of the meatheads going into the pitch pumped just become a danger to others rather than getting any better.

He'll end up going the same way as Terry newton.

That is unfortunately the very real worry - which makes the rest of the conversation irrelevant.

Whether it's genuine mental illness, or just poor life choices, or a mixture of the 2, he's clearly got a self destruct button and a trigger happy finger.

So then it's a question of is/has the game done enough to support him - he's certainly had plenty of opportunities and has had more than his fair share of '2nd, 3rd and 4th chances' at various clubs. We couldn't be sure what other support has been given to deal with whatever issues he has as an individual, but there does come a line where the game are no longer responsible and it's over to him and his friends/family to get things sorted (maybe with the help of the NHS etc).

Fundamentally though, my belief is that if the game was much tougher on some of the contributing factors such as drink, drugs, gambling so that anyone joining the sport at pro-level knows there is zero tolerance (and I mean absolute zero tolerance - not the 'turn a blind eye' zero tolerance we currently have), then we wouldn't have as many guys getting themselves into these issues - granted the individuals may still have the same problems (though I'd like to think some would never escalate down that route), but they'd never have been part of our game, so as harsh as it sounds, they wouldn't be our problem. Culturally, if it's a no go in our sport, we don't need to have this conversation.

I don't think zero tolerance towards drink is practical, no one would be able to field a team!

Not sorry to print the obvious:
Cocaine is illegal. Full stop.
If it's so widely used and abused as people have posted then , as RL cannot ignore or change legislation, then its use is something we need to challenge.


Comparing it to alcohol has no statistical standing.

What we have ignored is that many younger persons are drawn to illegal activity but Mr C seems to have this to a high level. So how do we prevent our players from dropping into such a sub-set. I do not think the stick is the main answer.

I don't think they drop into it - it's where they come from; if we were to adopt a zero tolerance approach to drinking, gambling, recreational drug use and chaotic lifestyles, there wouldn't be enough RL players to go around.

More media coverage from our friend Garry Schofield

[urlhttps://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/4181256/cocaine-is-a-massive-problem-throughout-rugby-league-says-legend-garry-schofield/[/url

Pint pot calling the kettle black.