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| Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"Jesus! Has Tomkins drilled your misses or something?
Yes he scored 13 tries, which was the 2nd highest for the Warriors behind Vatuvei, so what does that say about the rest of your squad if that's such a poor return? He's also not solely responsible for your team finishing 9th.
I'm going to ignore your bizzarre rant about homesickness, because it's ridiculous. You just sound like an incredibly miserable and bitter old man.
On his injuries, again it's just a rambling, incoherent mess. Show me a top player that hasn't struggled with injuries at some point in their career, he's not an injury prone player, he's actually very durable given his size. It's just unfortunate for him and the Warriors, these things happen. He's back this weekend by the way, I'm sure you'll be glad to know.'"
Oy massive cult! Listen to last weeks and this weeks TWIL for Tomkins real talk. |
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| Quote ="sgtwilko"Oy massive cult! Listen to last weeks and this weeks TWIL for Tomkins real talk.'"
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For me Tomkins is a great player who happens to play FB.
Hardaker is a very good and better and more natural FB than Tomkins.
Weirdly even though Hardaker is the better FB, Tomkins is the better player. It's Hardaker natural position really, whereas it's not Tomkins natural position even though he's been massively successful there (part of the reason he hasn't quite had the impact in Internationals there because the setup isn't focused as heavily on him).
Tomkins major attributes when playing FB could be replicated if he played in the halves if done properly with the right halfback partner. Whereas Hardaker key attributes are fully about playing FB. For me I think part of the thinking of the move to FB for Tomkins was originally to keep him being targeted in the defensive line.
If Tomkins had Hardaker's defence, positioning and catching or Hardaker had Tomkins attacking ability you'd have one ridiclously incredible player.
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| Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"No'"
Blinkers on! |
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Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"I'm going to ignore your bizzarre rant about homesickness, because it's ridiculous. You just sound like an incredibly miserable and bitter old man.
'"
WoW. You're settling right in here aren't you! 
Firstly I'm not in New Zealand and I am pretending to be a Warriors fan and once that it was pointed out you were wrong on both counts, now I am in the business of Bizarre rants about the very reason that's been given for him throwing in the Towel. That's what he's done by the way.....He's quit, thrown in the towel and admitted it was a step up too far for him.....the NRL was too tough and too hard for him.
I get it, you and the rest of the Wigan faithful will defend him the same way I defended Dennis Moran, who after scoring 66 tries in 3 seasons behind a London pack going backwards and twice topping the try scoring charts of SL, was solely blamed for Wigan nearly going down.....you lot do seem to have one eye when it comes to your "opinion".
The fact remains that Sam Tomkins was a try scoring wonder-kid in Superleague and the fact that he was not the #1 or even #2,3, or 4 attraction at 1 NRL club based in NZ has meant he has admitted defeat and is off home early. If he had "ripped it up" his request to go home would have been turned down/and/or Wigan would have been screwed for a bigger fee.....but nope, the NZ Warriors got reid, got cash and have signed players that will make us contenders next year. Sam Tomkins cane to the NRL and he underwhelmed.
Quote Sam Tomkins has been homesick after moving to New Zealand
He joined Warriors after leaving Wigan who are interested in signing him
Tomkins had been contracted until the end of the 2016 season
He said he missed home in ways he never thought he would'"
[size=50Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... z3cbX4qVuG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook[/size
Before he arrived....
[urlhttp://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-league-news/tomkins-not-better-than-locke-graeme-lowe-5590233[/url
Quote Coaching great Graeme Lowe isn't convinced that star England fullback Sam Tomkins will deliver value for money for the Warriors.'"
And who would you rather have?
[urlhttp://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/roger-tuivasa-sheck-inks-three-year-deal-with-new-zealand-sam-tomkins-granted-release-to-return-to-northern-hemisphere/story-fni3gn3s-1227295388650[/url |
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Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"I'm going to ignore your bizzarre rant about homesickness, because it's ridiculous. You just sound like an incredibly miserable and bitter old man.
'"
WoW. You're settling right in here aren't you!
Firstly I'm not in New Zealand and I am pretending to be a Warriors fan and once that it was pointed out you were wrong on both counts, now I am in the business of Bizarre rants about the very reason that's been given for him throwing in the Towel. That's what he's done by the way.....He's quit, thrown in the towel and admitted it was a step up too far for him.....the NRL was too tough and too hard for him.
I get it, you and the rest of the Wigan faithful will defend him the same way I defended Dennis Moran, who after scoring 66 tries in 3 seasons behind a London pack going backwards and twice topping the try scoring charts of SL, was solely blamed for Wigan nearly going down.....you lot do seem to have one eye when it comes to your "opinion".
The fact remains that Sam Tomkins was a try scoring wonder-kid in Superleague and the fact that he was not the #1 or even #2,3, or 4 attraction at 1 NRL club based in NZ has meant he has admitted defeat and is off home early. If he had "ripped it up" his request to go home would have been turned down/and/or Wigan would have been screwed for a bigger fee.....but nope, the NZ Warriors got reid, got cash and have signed players that will make us contenders next year. Sam Tomkins cane to the NRL and he underwhelmed.
Quote Sam Tomkins has been homesick after moving to New Zealand
He joined Warriors after leaving Wigan who are interested in signing him
Tomkins had been contracted until the end of the 2016 season
He said he missed home in ways he never thought he would'"
[size=50Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... z3cbX4qVuG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook[/size
Before he arrived....
[urlhttp://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-league-news/tomkins-not-better-than-locke-graeme-lowe-5590233[/url
Quote Coaching great Graeme Lowe isn't convinced that star England fullback Sam Tomkins will deliver value for money for the Warriors.'"
And who would you rather have?
[urlhttp://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/roger-tuivasa-sheck-inks-three-year-deal-with-new-zealand-sam-tomkins-granted-release-to-return-to-northern-hemisphere/story-fni3gn3s-1227295388650[/url | |
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| Quote ="ThePrinter" If Tomkins had Hardaker's defence, positioning and catching or Hardaker had Tomkins attacking ability you'd have one ridiclously incredible player.'"
= An 80% fit Greg Inglis? |
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"
If Tomkins had Hardaker's defence, positioning and catching or Hardaker had Tomkins attacking ability you'd have one ridiclously incredible player.'"
My auntie often laments her lack of testicles |
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Quote ="Jim Pooley"WoW. You're settling right in here aren't you!
Firstly I'm not in New Zealand and I am pretending to be a Warriors fan and once that it was pointed out you were wrong on both counts, now I am in the business of Bizarre rants about the very reason that's been given for him throwing in the Towel. That's what he's done by the way.....He's quit, thrown in the towel and admitted it was a step up too far for him.....the NRL was too tough and too hard for him.
I get it, you and the rest of the Wigan faithful will defend him the same way I defended Dennis Moran, who after scoring 66 tries in 3 seasons behind a London pack going backwards and twice topping the try scoring charts of SL, was solely blamed for Wigan nearly going down.....you lot do seem to have one eye when it comes to your "opinion".
The fact remains that Sam Tomkins was a try scoring wonder-kid in Superleague and the fact that he was not the #1 or even #2,3, or 4 attraction at 1 NRL club based in NZ has meant he has admitted defeat and is off home early. If he had "ripped it up" his request to go home would have been turned down/and/or Wigan would have been screwed for a bigger fee.....but nope, the NZ Warriors got reid, got cash and have signed players that will make us contenders next year. Sam Tomkins cane to the NRL and he underwhelmed.
[size=50Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... z3cbX4qVuG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook[/size
Before he arrived....
[urlhttp://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-league-news/tomkins-not-better-than-locke-graeme-lowe-5590233[/url
And who would you rather have?
[urlhttp://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/roger-tuivasa-sheck-inks-three-year-deal-with-new-zealand-sam-tomkins-granted-release-to-return-to-northern-hemisphere/story-fni3gn3s-1227295388650[/url'"
Well, that's exactly how you sound. You're not giving any sort of reasonable debate here, i mean, what was that drivel about polls and how Sam can't be homesick because Auckland win these said polls? I wasn't desputing the fact he was homesick, there were rumours about that pretty much throughout his entire time there, It was your "well I don't even like Auckland, but if I've got to live here then he can suck it up" argument that was mindblowingly stupid.
Regarding Moran, he wasn't the most popular player to represent Wigan due to his dreadful performances, but solely blamed for us nearly going down? Nah, you've pulled that one out your backside.
Anyway I'm going to ignore you from now on, you're clearly not capable of reasonable debate. It's similar to arguing with some idiot, religious fundamentalist. No matter how many facts and evidence are put in front of you, contradicting your arguments, you just keep sidestepping and swerving and sticking to your agendas. You simply can't win an argument against crazy. Ta ra. |
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Quote ="Jim Pooley"WoW. You're settling right in here aren't you!
Firstly I'm not in New Zealand and I am pretending to be a Warriors fan and once that it was pointed out you were wrong on both counts, now I am in the business of Bizarre rants about the very reason that's been given for him throwing in the Towel. That's what he's done by the way.....He's quit, thrown in the towel and admitted it was a step up too far for him.....the NRL was too tough and too hard for him.
I get it, you and the rest of the Wigan faithful will defend him the same way I defended Dennis Moran, who after scoring 66 tries in 3 seasons behind a London pack going backwards and twice topping the try scoring charts of SL, was solely blamed for Wigan nearly going down.....you lot do seem to have one eye when it comes to your "opinion".
The fact remains that Sam Tomkins was a try scoring wonder-kid in Superleague and the fact that he was not the #1 or even #2,3, or 4 attraction at 1 NRL club based in NZ has meant he has admitted defeat and is off home early. If he had "ripped it up" his request to go home would have been turned down/and/or Wigan would have been screwed for a bigger fee.....but nope, the NZ Warriors got reid, got cash and have signed players that will make us contenders next year. Sam Tomkins cane to the NRL and he underwhelmed.
[size=50Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... z3cbX4qVuG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook[/size
Before he arrived....
[urlhttp://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-league-news/tomkins-not-better-than-locke-graeme-lowe-5590233[/url
And who would you rather have?
[urlhttp://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/roger-tuivasa-sheck-inks-three-year-deal-with-new-zealand-sam-tomkins-granted-release-to-return-to-northern-hemisphere/story-fni3gn3s-1227295388650[/url'"
Well, that's exactly how you sound. You're not giving any sort of reasonable debate here, i mean, what was that drivel about polls and how Sam can't be homesick because Auckland win these said polls? I wasn't desputing the fact he was homesick, there were rumours about that pretty much throughout his entire time there, It was your "well I don't even like Auckland, but if I've got to live here then he can suck it up" argument that was mindblowingly stupid.
Regarding Moran, he wasn't the most popular player to represent Wigan due to his dreadful performances, but solely blamed for us nearly going down? Nah, you've pulled that one out your backside.
Anyway I'm going to ignore you from now on, you're clearly not capable of reasonable debate. It's similar to arguing with some idiot, religious fundamentalist. No matter how many facts and evidence are put in front of you, contradicting your arguments, you just keep sidestepping and swerving and sticking to your agendas. You simply can't win an argument against crazy. Ta ra. | |
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"For me Tomkins is a great player who happens to play FB.
Hardaker is a very good and better and more natural FB than Tomkins.
Weirdly even though Hardaker is the better FB, Tomkins is the better player. It's Hardaker natural position really, whereas it's not Tomkins natural position even though he's been massively successful there (part of the reason he hasn't quite had the impact in Internationals there because the setup isn't focused as heavily on him).
Tomkins major attributes when playing FB could be replicated if he played in the halves if done properly with the right halfback partner. Whereas Hardaker key attributes are fully about playing FB. For me I think part of the thinking of the move to FB for Tomkins was originally to keep him being targeted in the defensive line.
If Tomkins had Hardaker's defence, positioning and catching or Hardaker had Tomkins attacking ability you'd have one ridiclously incredible player.'"
This is the best post on this thread. At last someone who isn't trying to "point score" over people from clubs who either support or don't like Tomkins. |
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Quote ="Jim Pooley"WoW. You're settling right in here aren't you!
Firstly I'm not in New Zealand and I am pretending to be a Warriors fan and once that it was pointed out you were wrong on both counts, now I am in the business of Bizarre rants about the very reason that's been given for him throwing in the Towel. That's what he's done by the way.....He's quit, thrown in the towel and admitted it was a step up too far for him.....the NRL was too tough and too hard for him.
I get it, you and the rest of the Wigan faithful will defend him the same way I defended Dennis Moran, who after scoring 66 tries in 3 seasons behind a London pack going backwards and twice topping the try scoring charts of SL, was solely blamed for Wigan nearly going down.....you lot do seem to have one eye when it comes to your "opinion".
The fact remains that Sam Tomkins was a try scoring wonder-kid in Superleague and the fact that he was not the #1 or even #2,3, or 4 attraction at 1 NRL club based in NZ has meant he has admitted defeat and is off home early. If he had "ripped it up" his request to go home would have been turned down/and/or Wigan would have been screwed for a bigger fee.....but nope, the NZ Warriors got reid, got cash and have signed players that will make us contenders next year. Sam Tomkins cane to the NRL and he underwhelmed.
[size=50Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... z3cbX4qVuG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook[/size
Before he arrived....
[urlhttp://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-league-news/tomkins-not-better-than-locke-graeme-lowe-5590233[/url
And who would you rather have?
[urlhttp://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/roger-tuivasa-sheck-inks-three-year-deal-with-new-zealand-sam-tomkins-granted-release-to-return-to-northern-hemisphere/story-fni3gn3s-1227295388650[/url'"
So every Aus/NZ player who's ever cut a contract short and cited homesickness as the reason is a complete failure and the step-up from NRL to SL was too much for them? |
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Quote ="Jim Pooley"WoW. You're settling right in here aren't you!
Firstly I'm not in New Zealand and I am pretending to be a Warriors fan and once that it was pointed out you were wrong on both counts, now I am in the business of Bizarre rants about the very reason that's been given for him throwing in the Towel. That's what he's done by the way.....He's quit, thrown in the towel and admitted it was a step up too far for him.....the NRL was too tough and too hard for him.
I get it, you and the rest of the Wigan faithful will defend him the same way I defended Dennis Moran, who after scoring 66 tries in 3 seasons behind a London pack going backwards and twice topping the try scoring charts of SL, was solely blamed for Wigan nearly going down.....you lot do seem to have one eye when it comes to your "opinion".
The fact remains that Sam Tomkins was a try scoring wonder-kid in Superleague and the fact that he was not the #1 or even #2,3, or 4 attraction at 1 NRL club based in NZ has meant he has admitted defeat and is off home early. If he had "ripped it up" his request to go home would have been turned down/and/or Wigan would have been screwed for a bigger fee.....but nope, the NZ Warriors got reid, got cash and have signed players that will make us contenders next year. Sam Tomkins cane to the NRL and he underwhelmed.
[size=50Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyl ... z3cbX4qVuG
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook[/size
Before he arrived....
[urlhttp://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-league-news/tomkins-not-better-than-locke-graeme-lowe-5590233[/url
And who would you rather have?
[urlhttp://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/roger-tuivasa-sheck-inks-three-year-deal-with-new-zealand-sam-tomkins-granted-release-to-return-to-northern-hemisphere/story-fni3gn3s-1227295388650[/url'"
So every Aus/NZ player who's ever cut a contract short and cited homesickness as the reason is a complete failure and the step-up from NRL to SL was too much for them? | |
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| Quote ="WARRIORCRAIG"So every Aus/NZ player who's ever cut a contract short and cited homesickness as the reason is a complete failure and the step-up from NRL to SL was too much for them?'"
That may be a point but most Aussies that went home early homesick were not players on the biggest transfer fee in the game or one of the biggest names to move from England to the NRL were they?
Most were seasoned journeymen veterans moving to Super League for some extra cash or longer contracts than they could command at the end of their careers in the NRL and found they did not like the English lifestyle / type of game, they were not out to prove anything they had not achieved in the NRL in most cases.
Is it not Tomkins partner that is homesick and can not adapt to life in NZ?
That was what the early reports said. |
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| Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"You may as well climb on top of your house, pull your pants round your ankles and pi$$ into the wind mate. You can't reason with people that have their own bitter agendas.
I mean, in what world is Hardaker anywhere near Sam's level ffs? Baffling.'"
I like the way you prove your first statement with your second.
Hardaker is class. Look at that fabulous bit of play on sky TV the other week. Bomb goes up, Hardaker under pressure from chasers but had the coolness to back up 5 yards to get a run up an clear the opposition to catch cleanly. That's play that the likes of Wellens or Radlinski would have been proud of. |
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| Quote ="Buggo"That may be a point but most Aussies that went home early homesick were not players on the biggest transfer fee in the game or one of the biggest names to move from England to the NRL were they?
Most were seasoned journeymen veterans moving to Super League for some extra cash or longer contracts than they could command at the end of their careers in the NRL and found they did not like the English lifestyle / type of game, they were not out to prove anything they had not achieved in the NRL in most cases.
Is it not Tomkins partner that is homesick and can not adapt to life in NZ?
That was what the early reports said.'"
I don't think it matters whether it's him or his missus tbh. Some people can't adjust to living thousands of miles from home regardless of the quality of life that's on offer at the other end - that's a risk any club has to take if they're bringing someone over from the opposite hemisphere, especially if they're paying a big transfer fee. He's give it a go, hasn't played nearly as badly as some are suggesting and decided he wants to come back. To suggest that makes him a failure is well OTT. Tomkins' spell in NZ will be looked back on as underwhelming because of the money involved and the fact he has spent most of his 2nd season injured, but there's no way it can be suggested that he's not good enough for the NRL.
There are plenty of elite British players who haven't taken up the challenge of going over to the NRL; I think some credit needs to be given to ST for putting himself out of his comfort zone and giving it a go. |
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| Quote ="WARRIORCRAIG"I don't think it matters whether it's him or his missus tbh. Some people can't adjust to living thousands of miles from home regardless of the quality of life that's on offer at the other end - that's a risk any club has to take if they're bringing someone over from the opposite hemisphere, especially if they're paying a big transfer fee. He's give it a go, hasn't played nearly as badly as some are suggesting and decided he wants to come back. To suggest that makes him a failure is well OTT. Tomkins' spell in NZ will be looked back on as underwhelming because of the money involved and the fact he has spent most of his 2nd season injured, but there's no way it can be suggested that he's not good enough for the NRL.
There are plenty of elite British players who haven't taken up the challenge of going over to the NRL; I think some credit needs to be given to ST for putting himself out of his comfort zone and giving it a go.'"
I agree credit for giving is a go.
I would have thought his "Missus" would have no trouble finding a job in Auckland.
His particular deal needs to be put into focus and perspective though.
He was not an up coming Winger or Second Rower that backed himself to have a go in the NRL, he was the premier player in Super League by some margin that had an NRL Club pay an unprecedented transfer fee (the NRL is not used to the transfer fee system other than a few like Burgess and Tomkins)
To play one reasonable season then call homesick followed by an injury plagued final season is not a great outcome.
Tomkins has often been spoken about as a young man with potential that would burst onto the International scene and tear it up as he matures, this has been the case for several years.
He is now 26 years old.
There is another Fullback that is World class that some think may be slipping a little and maybe past his best, he is 28 years old and has 34 Tests, 27 Tries mainly as a Centre
Sam Tomkins 18 Tests, 6 Tries. (4 Wales, 1 NZ 1 Samoa)
Its easy scoring tries against the bottom half of the SL Comp I would think, plenty of games are routs where the minnows have given up by half time.
It would be like Souths or the Roosters playing the Redcliffe Dolphins or the Windsor Wolves in Australia. |
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"I like the way you prove your first statement with your second.
Hardaker is class. Look at that fabulous bit of play on sky TV the other week. Bomb goes up, Hardaker under pressure from chasers but had the coolness to back up 5 yards to get a run up an clear the opposition to catch cleanly. That's play that the likes of Wellens or Radlinski would have been proud of.'"
Never said he's not mate, I remember when Sam announced he was coming home and there was uncertainty where he would end up, there was a rumour about him going Leeds and Hardaker to Wigan. Wouldn't have complained at all if that had happened, but he's not on Sam's level at all.
Hardaker - Appearances (141) Tries (86) and that's including his time at Featherstone playing in a lower league.
Tomkins - Appearences (151) Tries (144) that's just including his time at Wigan. It's not even close. Why is this even up for debate?
Also Tomkins' defence is underrated a lot on here, you would think he's never made a tackle in his life the way some are talking. |
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| Quote ="Buggo"I agree credit for giving is a go.
I would have thought his "Missus" would have no trouble finding a job in Auckland.
His particular deal needs to be put into focus and perspective though.
He was not an up coming Winger or Second Rower that backed himself to have a go in the NRL, he was the premier player in Super League by some margin that had an NRL Club pay an unprecedented transfer fee (the NRL is not used to the transfer fee system other than a few like Burgess and Tomkins)
To play one reasonable season then call homesick followed by an injury plagued final season is not a great outcome.
Tomkins has often been spoken about as a young man with potential that would burst onto the International scene and tear it up as he matures, this has been the case for several years.
He is now 26 years old.
There is another Fullback that is World class that some think may be slipping a little and maybe past his best, he is 28 years old and has 34 Tests, 27 Tries mainly as a Centre
Sam Tomkins 18 Tests, 6 Tries. (4 Wales, 1 NZ 1 Samoa)
Its easy scoring tries against the bottom half of the SL Comp I would think, plenty of games are routs where the minnows have given up by half time.
It would be like Souths or the Roosters playing the Redcliffe Dolphins or the Windsor Wolves in Australia.'"
If it's so easy why doesn't every player do it? And would you like to show anyone who's done much better on the international scene for England or GB against the Aussies over the past 20 years? And also, how many of Inglis's tries for the national team have come against England or NZ? |
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| Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"Never said he's not mate, I remember when Sam announced he was coming home and there was uncertainty where he would end up, there was a rumour about him going Leeds and Hardaker to Wigan. Wouldn't have complained at all if that had happened, but he's not on Sam's level at all.
Hardaker - Appearances (141) Tries (86) and that's including his time at Featherstone playing in a lower league.
Tomkins - Appearences (151) Tries (144) that's just including his time at Wigan. It's not even close. Why is this even up for debate?
Also Tomkins' defence is underrated a lot on here, you would think he's never made a tackle in his life the way some are talking.'"
Any club would love to have him, even if it was to play elsewhere in the team, but don't act like people are crazy if they think Hardaker's a better full back. |
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| Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"Never said he's not mate, I remember when Sam announced he was coming home and there was uncertainty where he would end up, there was a rumour about him going Leeds and Hardaker to Wigan. Wouldn't have complained at all if that had happened, but he's not on Sam's level at all.'"
Not in attack, but no one is claiming he is. But in defence Tomkins isn't on Hardaker's level at all either.
Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"Hardaker - Appearances (141) Tries (86) and that's including his time at Featherstone playing in a lower league.
Tomkins - Appearences (151) Tries (144) that's just including his time at Wigan. It's not even close. Why is this even up for debate?.'"
Again, their's two sides to playing FB, attack and defence. In attack, and I don't mean this in a way to belittle his tries scored/assisted but the Wigan system was set up to have him the main focal point. At Leeds Hardaker isn't in the same role. If Hardaker had signed for Wigan in 2014 as Tomkins replacement then he'd have scored/assisted more tries in the last 18 months than he has at Leeds imo (that's not saying he'd have got more than Tomkins btw). Leeds particularly in the 2013/14 seasons really underachieved in terms of getting their backs good ball and good chances. In the last two years quite a few wingers have scored a lot more tries than Ryan Hall yet when it comes to the Internationals how many could HONESTLY say they wouldn't pick Hall to start on the wing? Again as a Leeds fan I'm pretty certain Hall would've scored more playing wing these last two years at Wigan than he would've done at Leeds.
Again it's not to say Hardaker would match Tomkins numbers, because even as a Leeds fan I don think he would. But you do have to take into account how well/different their clubs have used them in attack before just rolling out 'tries scored' as a definate indicator between the two. |
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| Quote ="Offside Monkey"Any club would love to have him, even if it was to play elsewhere in the team, but don't act like people are crazy if they think Hardaker's a better full back.'"
I will act like that, because there's no foundation to that claim whatsoever. |
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| Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"I will act like that, because there's no foundation to that claim whatsoever.'"
Hardaker is hugely superior in defence, Tomkins is better in attack.
Not much in it, Hardaker is a class act for sure. |
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| Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"
Hardaker - Appearances (141) Tries (86) and that's including his time at Featherstone playing in a lower league.
Tomkins - Appearences (151) Tries (144) that's just including his time at Wigan. It's not even close. Why is this even up for debate?
'"
Are you Eddie Hemmings? Bet you hate low scoring games don't you, boring aren't they? |
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"Not in attack, but no one is claiming he is. But in defence Tomkins isn't on Hardaker's level at all either.
Again, their's two sides to playing FB, attack and defence. In attack, and I don't mean this in a way to belittle his tries scored/assisted but the Wigan system was set up to have him the main focal point. At Leeds Hardaker isn't in the same role. If Hardaker had signed for Wigan in 2014 as Tomkins replacement then he'd have scored/assisted more tries in the last 18 months than he has at Leeds imo (that's not saying he'd have got more than Tomkins btw). Leeds particularly in the 2013/14 seasons really underachieved in terms of getting their backs good ball and good chances. In the last two years quite a few wingers have scored a lot more tries than Ryan Hall yet when it comes to the Internationals how many could HONESTLY say they wouldn't pick Hall to start on the wing? Again as a Leeds fan I'm pretty certain Hall would've scored more playing wing these last two years at Wigan than he would've done at Leeds.
Again it's not to say Hardaker would match Tomkins numbers, because even as a Leeds fan I don think he would. But you do have to take into account how well/different their clubs have used them in attack before just rolling out 'tries scored' as a definate indicator between the two.'"
I wouldn't really disagree with any of that mate, although I will say that the reason Wigan's system was tailored around Sam was because he is such a special talent that you simply do what it takes to get the best out of him. Both class players though no doubt.
Agree about Hall as well, he would have thrived in our system where we are very effective at getting the ball to the edges and getting our backs involved. |
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| Quote ="loiner81"Are you Eddie Hemmings? Bet you hate low scoring games don't you, boring aren't they?'"
No and no |
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| Quote ="FearTheVee"Hardaker is hugely superior in defence, Tomkins is better in attack.
Not much in it, Hardaker is a class act for sure.'"
You can always rely on a Saints fan being unbiased towards a Wigan player. Particularly one that routinely made a mockery of their defence. |
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| Quote ="PurpleCheeseWarrior"You can always rely on a Saints fan being unbiased towards a Wigan player. Particularly one that routinely made a mockery of their defence.'"
You think Sam is a better defender than ZH then I assume? |
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