Where have I said oggy deserves to be in the England's team ??? He belongs in the squad (and the recognition) over a player who has hardly played all year and from what I have seen is better than Stevie Ward.

If you don't jump to conclusions it will stop you writing 2 paragraphs of irrelevant cr@p

Fully agree.

This myth that you can pick an international team on form is just that. How far back do we go for this 'form'? A month, two, three months? A season? The last game played?

I'm a Wigan fan yet it really frustrates me when people question players like Ryan Halls place in the side or even Brett Ferres before his injury. They've played consistently well for England for a few seasons now and even though they've come off the back of a bad season at Leeds, they have enough credit in the bank to warrent a place.

I get that Stevie Ward doesn't fall in to that category of Hall or Ferres either but with injuries to O'Loughlin, Currie and Ferres we're left without a raft of options. Nobody jumps off the page at you really and whoever it was that got selected is unlikely to have a major role to play in the Four Nations unless somebody else gets injured (and probably two players).

I think they've taken a bit more of along term view tbh. In Ward they have a player who has massive potential and he should go on to be a far better player then the other options mentioned (McMeekan, Holmes, Hughes, Greenwood etc). The lad had been very highly thought of throughout all age groups given a full year with Leeds next year I think they expect him to force his way in to the World Cup squad on merit. It's a positive then that he can have a quick taste of it now.

I sound like a Leeds fan here so I'm off for a lie down

Stevie Ward has not only been an outstanding prospect throughout all age groups, he has been an outstanding player for the Leeds team, he is a player who, by the age of 22, has been a key player in a side which won a grand final in 2012, a challenge cup in 2014, a treble in 2015.

In 2015, Stevie Ward made 927 tackles, missing 62. in 2016 'Oggy' Holmes made 431 and missed 67. In 2015 Stevie Ward made 66 tackle busts, 2016 Holmes made 11. In 2015 Ward made 1880 metres, 2016 Holmes made 1167. In 2015 Ward made 11 clean breaks, in 2016 Holmes made 3. In 2015 Ward made 27 offloads, In 2016 Holmes made 5.

Stevie Ward is a very good player with outstanding potential. Holmes isnt very good.

Spot on, it's just this smaller club chip on the shoulder thing. "They always pick Leeds and Wigan players".....well yes they do because those teams play in the big games consistantly which is surely taken into account if you're then expected to go play in the international arena. Stevie Ward has already played in a GF, playoff semis, a CC final and semi finals, a WCC. He was arguably one of our best 3 players in a treble winning season and put in one of the finest performances of last year by any player in a single game in the LLS clinching game vs Hudds before he got injured at the end.

McMeeken and Holmes with all due respect don't have that CV and won't if they stay at Cas.

If we perpetuate the myth that the only way to get recognition is to sign for the 'big clubs' then there will only ever be the 'big clubs' experiencing success. It's a vicious circle. That's the issue.

The Wigan Leeds propaganda continues on the virtual terrace. Outstanding prospect Stevie Ward

I bet the Aussies are babbing themselves.... I remember being told the same by hull fans on here ten years ago about a scrum half called Tommy Lee. OIlly Holmes is still young and vastly more experienced than Ward... he is a work horse and while in no way suggesting he should be near England's first 17 he much deserves a shot over butter bones Ward. Ward has been in big games this year ??? What fev away ??? As Cas have been streets in front of Leeds all season, I would suggest our pack is better and Olly and Michael have been a massively part of that. I suggest bringing Ryan Bailey back into the squad because he has lots of medals and has played in plenty of big games

You're right, let's put Oliver Holmes in and they'll be terrified I'm sure.



Around 50 games isn't exactly vastly especially when Ward is a year younger, had a tougher team to break into and as pointed out Ward's games have included much bigger significant games, not just good league showings beating Wakefield and Widnes.



Not suggesting he should be near the England 17? That's all you have been doing. Holmes only played in 8 of your 23 regular season games, hardly the model of fitness either.



No one said he's been in big games this year, neither has Oliver Holmes.



Yep massive part of a team that just lingered around 6th/7th/8th most of the year. Ward was a standout in a team who won a treble. Holmes only played 8 games in the regular season and you only won half of them so he hardly played a huge part now did he. Add in the Super 8's and he's played 14 games, hardly a massive total himself. McMeeken hardly played after your Round 20 loss that left you back in 9th place, the place you ridicule Leeds for but McMeeken deserves praise for getting you there before being injured.

Holmes only played 50 less games, you do realize that's a season and a half season worth of rugby.... injury free. Your statistics as accurate as they are don't tell the whole story baring in mind we have had the worst injury crisis I have ever known at the club he's not going to be in a side that wins every week..... again because sky don't go on about it every week doesn't mean we haven't. Fact is this year we have 2 better players than Stevie Ward yet he gets picked and the better players don't based on the fact he played well last year and another fact is he plays for a middle 8s club. Leeds pack has been feeble this year yet a second rower has been picked for the national squad Who has been sub standard all year. I'm not basing my opinion on potential or how good they used to be or who they play for, I'm basing my opinion on the better player this season.... maybe that's why I don't get where you are coming from

Hang on a minute, all this whinging about how can Leeds players get picked when Leeds have had such a bad year and how can a Leeds forward be picked when their whole pack has been feeble all year (it hasn't btw, our issue was more HB's not creating).....yet when you point out the form of Cas when some of their candidates were playing its wrong because it doesn't tell the whole story with regards to other players missing due to injury. Yeah like Leeds haven't had to deal with that.

Holmes and McMeeken may have been better players this year, but they haven't been international level consideration good. Ward was international level worthy last year. Holmes for a start for all your praise has missed over half your games this year and McMeeken only made it back from a broken leg for the last two games so is hardly at great fitness either.

There's a lot more to this than who is better/has played more. For a start better is all down to opinion, I'm sure people on here can understand Wayne Bennetts opinion is different to there's?

Then take into account that Ward, McMeeken and Holmes all have very different skill sets even though they all play second row. Holmes is a workhorse, McMeeken a hole puncher and Ward more of a ball handler. That comes into play when picking a squad, Holmes IMO would be a replacement in the Liam Farrell mould. This IMO is also the reason Clarke is in over Houghton, because he offers a different dynamic to Hodgson whereas Houghton would offer a simmilar input.

All three have had injury issues this year. In fact all the guys you'd think might have a chance of forcing their way into the World Cup have, including guys like Greenwood, Currie etc.

Bottom line is Ward has a serious international future and with all due respect Holmes doesn't. A good SL player mind.

Ward is also very unlikely to figure in the 17 In the big games barring a few injuries, it's a silly argument.

I'll just be glad when the Four Nations is over and done with.

give over, it's all I've been looking forward to since our confirmation of middle 8s in July

It's unlikely any would play against Australia or NZ anyway. I'd rather have Holmes and McMeekan having a long rest and a good pre-season.
I'm glad Luke Gale is playing as he is likely to be first choice half back and playing the likes of Aus and NZ should improve his game. There would be no benefit to Holmes and McMeekan training for a further six weeks, playing against France and/or Scotland and risking possible injury.
So I'm glad Stevie Ward has been picked, from a purely selfish point of view.

Let's look at it slightly differently, if Holmes was actually any good, hull FC would have signed him already

I'm struggling to think of the last player who moved from Cas to Hull successfully. Westerman was okay, but didn't reach anywhere near the potential he had.
Other than that the likes of Thompson and Arundel have been mediocre.

Classic England

They look ok now, France are hanging on for dear life, trying to stop the flood gates opening

Is Widdop really the best we have in that position?

At least two tries probs 3 from England have all come from dodgy calls in the lead up by Bentham. France in possession and he gives a knock on and it wasnt, the touch that hall claimed is pathetic. Just hasnt given France a sniff. And wonder why the int. Games a joke?? Cooper shouldve been binned after the scuffle too.

Whats an inflated 50 point thrashin full of barge tries gonna teach Bennett?

There was a clear touch from the French player, albeit Bentham missed it.
Watch again and you'll spot it.

That knee to the head penalty was a fookin disgraceful call. Knock on by the England player despite the contact which wasn't horrendous anyway but a penalty. Jesus christ, it has Ganson written all over it, that time he penalised Constantine Mika for 'leading with the head' in a tackle when it was just an accidental clash of head.
.
Thought I heard Bentham let slip saying to the England kicking tee carrier that he's got a new job?
Fackng good riddance if so!

Yes there was a touch. Did he play at the ball? Nah. Facing sidewards and it seemed to come off his hip. Its a ludicrous 'rule' then that rewards a bad pass

yep, absolute clear touch.

His passing is truly awful.

Just wangs it, no spin on the ball and consequently really slow and inaccurate.