?? Really,in what way? I thought he got through his usual amount of graft.not his greatest game but far from garbage.

mcillorum is utter garbage. Thank god we had burrow on the bench as we'd probably have lost if mcillorum had played the full 80

Thought Burrow made the difference today.

Tackled well but offered nothing going forward. If that's how he's going to play his game then we may as well just have another second rower on the pitch.

Same could be said of New Zealand and the Aussies will ease to the final having only had 1 challenge (from England) 5 weeks prior.

......................

Burrow whilst played well, it was because we had so much possession in that second half. We won't enjoy that much against New Zealand or Australia so you have to remember and consider the defensive issues that taking off a hooker who defends down the middle and bringing on someone you have to hide out wide.

Hard to judge Farrell to see if he's ahead of Ablett moving onwards. The game as a whole started to lull down again shortly after he finally got on.

Barring injuries we've probably see the last of Mossop, Tom Burgess and Widdop in this tournament. Still think Briscoe and Charnley is a close call.

I'm not turning this into a club vs club row but I think people are being harsh on the Wigan lads.
O'Loughin has played 4 games since August, he's not 100 percent match fit but he's the perfect loose forward a leader, can take the ball up & can distribute, he will improve with every game and is a key part of England's pack.
McIlroum is a very big defender and a very good distributor. He's not going to do the scooting the burrow does or Rob but we do need something different- he's like a terrier in the middle and gets stuck in.
Farrell did as much tonight as Ablett has done in 2 games.
I don't understand the criticism for Charnley. He's got speed to burn, everyone is forgetting his reactions for his try against the Aussies, he should come back in over Briscoe for me.

Good point but we will get some periods in the game where the momentum is ours and this is when burrow needs to be brought in.i suppose thats down to the quality of the coaches to spot that window of opportunity.

I think the starting 13 for Fiji were well up to this level of play, but their reserves were not up to it.
Fiji were also out of petrol after having a 60/40 possession split against them as well.
As a Fiji fan, I just wish Mrs Sims had been a better breeder, because the team needed a few more like the other 3.
Plenty of improvement in the Fiji side still. With Uate and Waqa back they will be much more dangerous in attack, but the loss of Korbin Sims (to suspension) will hurt because they are already short 3 or 4 quality forwards.

Fiji are still capable of finishing 4th.

Look mate, I have nothing against Wigan and I agree that Tomkins and O'Loughlin deserve their places in the starting 13 at 1 & 13 respectively.

But Charnley and Farrell lack the individual class to make an impression at international level, not club level, international level.

If you truly believe that Charnley is a better option than Briscoe then you need to take a step back from the club you support and think carefully about what each individual player can do because there's no comparison.

Farrell is nothing more than a work horse at international level and as I've said he lacks the individual quality to make an impression on a game at international level.

As for McIllorum, as has been said earlier, had he played the full 80 we'd have lost that game - he's absolute garbage, offers nothing apart for "being tough" and as for McNamara saying "he'll offer some whack in the middle", prior to yesterday, we'll he needs to start waking up and smell the coffee because McIllorum should not be anywhere near an England jersey again because he offers nothing.

all i saw from briscoe was cutting inside everytime and did he break any tackles? the only time he went on the outside is when he shouldn't then he kicked it and gave the ball away. McIlorum had a fine game usual tough tackling and good distribution if the english halves played better we would of scored more no doubt about it, burrow wont be able to hide out wide like he tried to do today before getting knocked out. Farrell well he hardly looked out of place either when he was on offloaded and made meters nothing wrong with his performance.

The difference between the first and second half was decision making and execution from chase, and the tiring fiji team. Mcilorum is not a world class player in attack, but i am sure he had a good hand in tiring out the Fiji team in the irst half. Chase just doesnt seem to understand structure at all. He will do miss out passeswhen the numbers are fine so just slows down play, he double pumps on dummy runs so just slows down play. He was clueless in the first half. It worked once, but just hamstrung our attack for the whole first half. Ryan hall scored down the line in spite of rangi chase not because of his pass. Burrow came on and did well supporting play, but the key was the halves playing to an attacking structure that made space. Rob burrow was the hooker in the pitch when the halves decided to actually play to a structure, and while fiji were knackered. But burrow doesnt offer anything different from roby, and is just less reliable in defence. Mcilorum offers bruising defense and a competent attack with competent halfback play around him.

Oloughlin is good, and significantly better than any alternative. Farrell vs ablett is much of a muchness, as is charnley vs briscoe.

So next match starting team from today, roby on the bench for burrow, but same bench otherwise (farrell vs ablett...?) mcilorum to go off after 20, then roby to do the rest of the match.

Il be honest I dont get the comparisons of Vharnley and Briscoe. One had an average to poor game against best side in the world. The other had an ok game against Ireland and an average to poor game against Fiji.

At club level Charnley has walked all over Briscoe, at international you cant compare the games imo.

As for MM always knew ppl wouldnt like it. Truth is his work goes largely unnoticed. Hard tackling, cover and good distribution dont grab the eye like scooting does.

End of the day, its the wrong mix on the field, and the wrong utilisation of some players. My head hopes as few Wigan players are involved as possible as they can get a good pre season for next year.

They could play the best in the world and still get no thanks off some fans.

O'L is world class but was very average today. I'd have him in the 17 every time (providing he is fully fit).
Charnley was the best winger in SL last season but has deservedly lost his place to Briscoe.
Farrell & Mcilorum are a million miles off international class.

charnley hardly had a bad game against the aussies either. people are making out like he missed every tackle to no runs and didn't score a try which come from him putting pressure on anyway.

Everyone was poor apart from burrow, sinfield, briscoe and watkins.

Marhcing on togther......

Loving the irony. Watkins pah!!

What saddens me week after week and game after game on this board are the club coaches who come on here and slag off other clubs players, pick fault on everything and ANYTHING.

YOU ARE ALL A LOT OF IDIOTS. why not for once get behind the bloody team. Played three, won 2. In to the QF. WHAT MORE DO YOU Fucking want? Jesus get a life.


Come on ENGLAND!

I think the side is selecting itself.

I'm glad others can see that the Sinfield to 9 tactic is a waste of time and player talent. Either Widdop plays or he doesn't, but you have to stick to your guns and not take the cowards choice of putting him on the bench.

Putting him on the bench weakens the team by shifting Sinfield to 9 a place he really does not play particularly well at this level.

As for Charnley v Briscoe. I would have started with Charnley after this season, but he lost his place fair and square. Sure he got a try in the Australia match, but it was off a mistake and a stoke of luck with the bounce. Any winger worth his salt with that mistake and bounce would have scored.

Briscoe has shown a lot more endevour and enthusiasm for me.
I would not say O'Loughlin is a poor choice but he will not shine like he will in a Wigan side. The difference is that some of the best pack players in the world are in this England set up, so in comparison he does not seem as fantastic as he does against teams in SL. (but I did think he ran some decent lines and did not seem to let us down in defense either)

I was a little concerned at halftime. But it was nice to see once we got our tails up we executed better.

Cudjoe did not have his best game, but he has shown against the Aussies that he has the game for this level.

Having seen most of the team. My best pick would be...

Tomkins, Briscoe, Cudjoe, Watkins, Hall, Chase, Sinfield
G.Burgess, Roby, Hill, Westwood, Ferres, O'Loughlin

Bench

Burrows, Graham, S. Burgess, (then probably Mossop)

Lots of one eyed fans just supporting their own team players and slating anyone not involved with their own club.
Thought the team played well. Nice to see sinfield had another good game, but I think he has come in for a lot of undue critisism. Thought most of the pack played well, and fair play to ferries wasn't a fan of his inclusion in the squad but is having a good tourniment.
Today I thought both centres were pretty poor, particulary Watkins.
On the comment regarding the Wigan players didn't think Mclorum had a bad game at all, decent distribution and some good defence.
SOL had a quiet game but would still have him In the starting team.
Charnley vs Briscoe is very much of a muchness. At the start of the tourniment would have had charnley ahead of briscoe. Prefer briscoe in defence but charnley in attack.
On Farrell Vs Ablett again much of a muchness, both good club men, i personally would have ablett on the bench over Farrell just as I think ablett covers centre better and Watkins leg seems to get more strapping every game, the same leg injured against Wigan in the play offs and may need cover there.

1 more warm up game before the world cup begins for England

I think I have been "loving" moderated!

When McIllorum was on the pitch today, the team scored only 6 points and conceded 12.

His distribution is nothing special at all, he has zero creativity and his discipline is suspect and for those saying "he didn't have a bad game", well hooker touches the ball more than any other position in case you've forgot and as I said before, there's a handful of English hookers with far superior attacking nous in virtually every facet of the game with ball in hand.

McIllorum is total and utter e and it's nothing to do with club bias - I just want what's best for England RL.

FINALLY a sensible post! Well said. This!

So the fact this was his first game of the comp. and he was probably told to go out and settle in is not considered? If you are so good a hooker or coach them apply for a a place in the squad or the coaches job. MM played steady game. The tries scored or conceded is not a measure of his performance. More dope comments from the intellectual RL fan base.

RL fans won't be pleased even if England lift the trophy. Some club nutter will come on a complain so and so had a poor game and Sinfield is not international class. RL fans sadden me.

I think that G Burgess and Hill coming on was the big difference tbh. When they came on we started making good ground but also got the quick play the balls an momentum. For me G Burgess and Hill should start the game to get us off to a strong start. Graham should be used off the bench like he does a lot at the Bulldogs. People bagging McLlorum are doing so based on how the majority of the good play and tries were scored with him off the field but for me that was more a coincidence that he was off at the same time as George and Chris Hill. Regards Farrell I to agree he is a little small to make a big impact off the bench he has better footwork and runs better lines than Ablett but Ablett offers good options incase of injuries in the backs. Im not even going to defend O'Loughlin because he is one of the best English players around and although he wasn't amazing today he was still everywhere in defence and ran strong. Briscoe Vs Charnley is still a tough call. Both can score spectacular long range tries, both are strong ball carriers when helping the forwards, Briscoe has worse ball handling and isn't as good in the air whilst Charnley can get caught coming off his wing although most times that is due to the numbers being wrong in the middle of the field leaving him helpless. IMO our strongest team would be (Baring in mind McNamara will never change Chase ...

S.Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Cudjoe
Hall
Chase
Sinfield
Hill
McLlorum
G Burgess
Ferres
S Burgess
O'Loughlin

Roby (on after 20 for the remainder)
Graham
Westwood
Ablett/T Burgess/Farrell depending on what you need against certain opposition.