You mean that people might say "that's a bit stupid" when the usual lunatics think a poorly supported club struggling to find players ought to be playing in SL.

Still thankfully Crusaders showed us all up. They've obviously achieved far more than minor club status.

While we're on the subject, it is amazing how few people think Catalans ought not to be in SL. It might have something to do with them not being a joke rather than them "not being a threat".

I think they might hold onto said talented youth a bit longer but a player with the talent to play SL isn't going to stay at CC / CC1 level indefinitely. Either a SL club will come in for them or they will be off to RU.

That's true, but for example, at least London Broncos got a few years out of LMS. If he'd come through at Leigh Miners for example, Leigh wouldn't have got a sniff at getting him in the side for a few years or a chance of a transfer fee.

You called?

Copy the original quote and say what was wrong with it and why.

Well, we would, but it would be Northampton, Bedford and Rugby RU clubs. I still expect to see our best youth players go to Broncos or other SL clubs, rather than the local club BTW.

You really had to be there to see it

So they get a load of Aussies on dodgy Visa's , Pay them full time wages on money provided by the RFL , allowing them to circumvent the Salary Cap , is that ' Equal ' ?

Part of the reason was almost the entire population of Bridgend hated the bloke , hardly somebody the RFL should have encouraged in the way they did , Entrusting their Welsh development budget to him and his company , and then advising on Visa applications , Mr Samuels wasn't the only guilty party in the Celtic Crusaders shambles , there were some very twitchy bums in a big building in Leeds as well

I'd love to see Northampton prosper and by doing it from an existing sporting clubs set up makes it that much more viable long term. They're only 40 miles up the road for me so might nip over for some games though to be honest with St.Albans Cents & Hemel on my doorstep there's not a great deal of incentive to travel regularly to watch similar std rugby

I remember Crusaders coming down to us in 2006 in the Northern Rail with 30-40 fans and the side were head & shoulders above everyone in NL2. However despite their fans enthusiasm when I heard of their entry to SL in such a short space of time I knew it was a banker for it to go wrong.
The whole situation was clearly contrived & mismanaged by the RFL who should take most of the blame for trying to justify their investment in the MM project. It was obvious they were never ready, their infrastructure didn't have a sound footing and the development of the club as a whole still had some way to go to enable a full time pro club to operate/survive without having all the tribulations that they did.

Expansion must be slow & sure but if rugby league wants the game to truly become national at a pro level they have to get rid of the present encumbants who are not fit for purpose.

If the RFL stick to four new teams then I'm pretty sure that Hemel will be one of them.

Quote ="headhunter"Really? Which part do you debate? Is it that Celtic Crusaders' crowds in 2008 were higher than the majority of the league and comparable to the likes of Leigh and Halifax, despite it only being their third season in existence? Here's a link to the 2008 NL1 table with attendances if you'd like to compare: championshipstats.rlfans.com/Co- ... index.html Is it that in 2008 Celtic Crusaders finished second in NL1, and lost the Grand Final in extra time? The link above shows the final league standings, and here is a match report from the Grand Final: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 638206.stm Is it that several of the players from Celtic Crusaders' fledgling youth system in 2008 have gone on to sign for established Super League clubs? The Crusaders Colts side won the Conference National in their only season having comfortably beaten Bramley in the Grand Final, that match was played as a curtain raiser to the aforementioned NL1 Grand Final. [url=http://www.crusadersrfl.com/page.php?id=556Here[/url is a match report from that day, and here are links to the articles regarding those players moving on to Super League clubs: menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... -welsh-duo news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 211016.stm Anything else you'd like to question about my post?'" The published figures might have been better , that doesn't mean they actually attended the games And yes , their ileagal players did finish 2 nd , and yes they did manage to get some promising Rugby UNION players to try out League , but dont pretend they ' produced ' these players in the same way a heartland club is expected to , to claim them as their own ? But anybody who actually visited Brwery field knew it was a joke , even the stadium was a mess , even the bloody pitch was a mess , My son broke his bloody leg there 2 years ago because the pitch was so bloody ' boggy '

Quote ="headhunter"Really? Which part do you debate? Is it that Celtic Crusaders' crowds in 2008 were higher than the majority of the league and comparable to the likes of Leigh and Halifax, despite it only being their third season in existence? Here's a link to the 2008 NL1 table with attendances if you'd like to compare: championshipstats.rlfans.com/Co- ... index.html Is it that in 2008 Celtic Crusaders finished second in NL1, and lost the Grand Final in extra time? The link above shows the final league standings, and here is a match report from the Grand Final: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 638206.stm Is it that several of the players from Celtic Crusaders' fledgling youth system in 2008 have gone on to sign for established Super League clubs? The Crusaders Colts side won the Conference National in their only season having comfortably beaten Bramley in the Grand Final, that match was played as a curtain raiser to the aforementioned NL1 Grand Final. [url=http://www.crusadersrfl.com/page.php?id=556Here[/url is a match report from that day, and here are links to the articles regarding those players moving on to Super League clubs: menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... -welsh-duo news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 211016.stm Anything else you'd like to question about my post?'" The published figures might have been better , that doesn't mean they actually attended the games And yes , their ileagal players did finish 2 nd , and yes they did manage to get some promising Rugby UNION players to try out League , but dont pretend they ' produced ' these players in the same way a heartland club is expected to , to claim them as their own ? But anybody who actually visited Brwery field knew it was a joke , even the stadium was a mess , even the bloody pitch was a mess , My son broke his bloody leg there 2 years ago because the pitch was so bloody ' boggy '

Hemel have had a very consistant team for the last few years, they just need to get their ground sorted out (As in it's a playing field & not a particularly good one at that)
I was over at Medway Dragons earlier this year and they have a fantastic set up and after only 4 years too. they had an amazing festival of rugby in the summer with about 300 or so kids taking part at all levels. THAT is the type of thing needed amongst others as a minimum criteria before entry to even semi pro leagues.
This is happening at so many clubs in the South now, at my club St.Albans the juniors are really taking off and the player coach has been developing leagues within local schools for the past few years. Without this kind of involvment at grass roots no team can hope to survive and develop in a way that promotes the game how it should be and enable clubs to expand properly.
It just can't happen in the blink of an eye.
That's why Crusaders were doomed from the off.

Medway have a great set-up but they've only been running an open age side for one year. If a similar junior set-up was required for CC1 then there would be Medway in the league and nobody else. Their time will probably come but right now they have no chance.

As for the rest I agree 100%.

Who has said we should do that?

And a heartland team in the championships would never be filled with overseas players would it? We would never see a sustained and deliberate attempt to circumvent the cap from a heartland team would we?

Even someone as biased and blinkered as you has to accept that if an expansion side is going to be able to compete on an equal footing they need to be in competition for the same player pool, and whilst a player may be willing to accept playing part-time for the club at the end of his street for part-time wages, he probably wont be able to move to the other end of the country for a part-time wage.

So please give us your ' subjective ' scale of ' eveness ' to make sure all clubs compete on an even footing ?

How much extra salary cap money and quota excemptions makes something fair ?

£ 50 grand ? , 100 ? , 150 ?

4 players ? , 5 ? , 6 ? , 15 ?

How much extra RFL funding through development should they be given to spend on players ? £ 50 grand ? , !00 ? , 200 ?

Earlier in one thread or another it was stated that if existing CC1 teams are complaining about the amount of travelling they will have to do with the new teams coming in then they should drop down to a regional league.

I find it amusing that people now want a 'level playing field' regarding the salary cap for the new teams.
My answer to that would be if the expansion teams can not compete in this league with the same cap as everyone else then perhaps they should join a regional league.

Personally I would look at giving the 5 or 6 players who had SL experience and were at the upper end of the quality scale, players who could combine a playing position with coaching and community development roles.

Why? the salary cap is set at a level which is beneficial for the heartland Championship sides and they have the added advantage of having SL quality academies (funded by other clubs) on their doorstep. Im not sure why Leigh should receive and advantage purely on the basis they are near Wigan.

The SC doesnt level the playing field, it artificially stacks the deck in favour of some sides based purely on location. I thought you were against that?

Surely equality means that everyone is playing under the same rules. What you are suggesting to me seems to be going down the road so called 'positive discrimination' which is wrong and never works in any walk of life.
If i want to join a club then i would expect to abide by the rules of that club, i would not expect any special treatment or favours from the existing members.

You would need to be a real moron to equate it to 'positive discrimination'. Equality doesnt mean playing under the same rules, do you know why? Because for the reasons i have already set out, the rules dont affect everyone in the same way. If you are disproportionately affected by a rule then it doesnt apply equally does it.

Your p!$$ing in the wind with this one RB
Theres no such thing as a level playing field with this lot.
Its favouritism with plenty of f***ups all the way.
Oh and arguing just for the sake of it.

So what you are saying is that the rules should be changed but only for the new members of the club, but existing members of the club should stop moaning about the extra travelling, lower standards and poorer crowds etc or leave the club?

No, not at all. If the SC rules were rejigged to better benefit the heartland clubs i would be in favour of it. I have no affiliation to the current system, if it can be changed for something better then we should do it.

But I would think it very naive to think that expansion teams exist in the same space as heartland teams, they dont and there is no reason we shouldnt accept that.

Regardless of what the salary cap is clubs should only spend what they can afford.
However i don't see how we can have different rules for different teams. My club for example, Doncaster, is not in the heartlands or on the doorstep of a SL club, but also is not an expansion area. so where do we fit in?