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| Quote ="littlerich"icon_lol.gif
By the way - i'm not having a dig at Castleford. Other clubs are doing it. It's frustrating - more so for you fans directlly affected i guess.'"
Yeah no worries, never took it as you were. Yep, we're more annoyed than anyone waiting to find out, hopefully these next few weeks something major will happen.
Makes you wonder though why our sport struggles so much. A comment is made on a BBC tv sports program and it takes 3 full days before that comment makes it's way on to it's own interweb site. (I'm guessing the BBC are using Tiscali?) There's just so much that needs improving in our game (ok, we can't effect poop journalism) and it's just a shame the RFL seem to have a good idea (franchises) but could severely damage our game if they do not get things right. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"and how far away are they from turnover and attendance? I cant think they are miles away from either?
and the north stand? are they close to sorting that?'"
Quote ="SmokeyTA"and how far away are they from turnover and attendance? I cant think they are miles away from either?
and the north stand? are they close to sorting that?'"
Even if they are close on those counts - they can't realistically apply and then compete for SL until we get a backer(s). I'm not interested in suffering at the foot of the table. I had a gut full of that in 2003. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"also when did Barrow say they werent applying? i thought they had said they would?'"
I can't find the link now 
Think it was on Sportinglife.Com somewhere. |
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If one of Cas or Wakey get the boot then they only have themselves to blame. I like both teams, I really do, but long-term you really have to question the value of having two - really rather poor - teams in such close proximity. The craziest thing is if they did get their act together and agree to a ground-share a lot of the problems for both teams in terms of crietria would disappear - tick in the box for ground and probably better financials as well due to shared costs. Had one or other actually got going on a new ground, I may think differently, but TBH all the announcements to date sound like a load of horse-pooh.
I'm not suggesting the clubs need to necessarily merge, but both seem to be getting lukewarm support from the council, who obviously would prefer to have to help out in the development of one new ground not two.
I understand issues with Quins but like it or not they are key to the broader appeal of the sport to broadcasters and the like. Without them, Crusaders and Cats we'd be struggling to get any sort of deal out of Sky going forward.
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I don't really see why it's a given that Quins are safe and that we need them from a point of view of the Sky deal.
If it's simply a case of putting Sky dishes on roofs in the capital then I don't see the link. If there was that much enthusiasm for Quins down there people would be going to see them in numbers, not tuning in to the odd broadcast.
I don't have my flat cap on here, and I really have no gripe with Harlequins as a club, in fact I'd love to see them as a real force. It's just this assumption that I question.
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| Quote ="Bobbin' Along"I don't really see why it's a given that Quins are safe and that we need them from a point of view of the Sky deal.
If it's simply a case of putting Sky dishes on roofs in the capital then I don't see the link. If there was that much enthusiasm for Quins down there people would be going to see them in numbers, not tuning in to the odd broadcast.
I don't have my flat cap on here, and I really have no gripe with Harlequins as a club, in fact I'd love to see them as a real force. It's just this assumption that I question.'"
This is a proffesional observation....not an assumption.
SKY....when they go to agencies will say we have an audience of X. The client, say, DELL, will say how many of X reside in areas A, B & C?
SKY will then say that they have 50% in A, 30% in B and 20% in C. Then they will ask for viewing figures for various programmes.....in A, B & C. (the client/agency think they know how much the residents of areas A,B &C have to spend on their product)
Now getting slightly wound up with all the questions, SKY will produce viewing figures in both domestic and commercial (pubs) venues and RL is a great filler....in that if Publican Mr Smith is paying 2k a month for SKY, regardless of if the wendyball is on, he will have the tv on in his pub and if it's RL he's showing, then that adds to the figures for "viewers'.
Now...stay with me here.......as much as London and the SE has no "walk up and pay at the door" value as a fan based sport....to your media planner (who loves stats BTW.....oh he also lives in the SE of England/London), SKY sports becomes a better viable option......
...so there you have it! SKY want a pro london RL team to help them sell advertising.....it has nothing to do with them being a fan of the sport, jellie eels or an unatural affinity with pearly queens.
It has SFA to do with dishes....it is all about ad spend.
That said, Quins have no god given right to a place in SL and I suspect the above reason is one of the causes for them being apathetic when questions are asked of the club.
As I say....3 more years but DEFINED targets set for them.....on both new fans and EFFORT in attracting them! |
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Thanks for the explanation, good to get that kind of insight. I'll be sorry to see any club drop down, but the door has to be open for the NL1 clubs who are making strides to get in.
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| Quote ="Bobbin' Along"Thanks for the explanation, good to get that kind of insight. I'll be sorry to see any club drop down, but the door has to be open for the NL1 clubs who are making strides to get in.'"
As I prepare to be shot.....again by the apologetic quins faithfull.
I would have no complaint if Quins went....I would refrain from loads of [size=200I warned you in 2002 posts[/size and would be sad to see the club drop down, but it is the fact they are losing 30 to 50k a week, with the squad they have (mid-table at best but nowhere near cap) and the total lack of anything resembling urgency in the marketing department that winds me up.
As a business, Quins RL well me be a future case study used by people trying to avoid running their businesses into the ground  |
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The only clubs fit for Super League at the moment are Hull FC, Saints (when they move), Warrington, Wigan, Leeds, Catalans and Huddersfield.
The rest either have a ground issues (Bradford, KR, Cas, Wakey, Salford, or embarrassing attendances (Crusaders, Quins, Salford - again).
If the RFL want to be bold, they should have an elite competition of the A-rated clubs, and a secondary competition of the clubs close to being Super League ready, split the deal with Sky between the two competitions and promote those who get their house in order to the elite competition when they're ready.
The problem is that there would be uproar of a mass culling of Super League clubs from fans. It's much easier for them to kick out one team other SL fans see as the weakest (Wakey usually, or Cas or Salford to some) when in truth they're not really any worse than the likes of Bradford and Hull KR - both of who have poor stadia, poor youth development and hardly awe-inspiring performances on the pitch.
Personally, I think a club should come in to replace one it's better than. I would say Widnes are better than Wakey, Cas or Salford purely on the basis of stadia and a fully supportive Chairman and would have no qualms about that change being made (although would be gutted to see Cas go, especially since our youth development is outstanding and would undoubtedly be hampered in the lower tiers). I would have serious issues about rushed expansion. Crusaders should have been given three years in the Championship and would have been a stronger club for it. Super League shouldn't be the breeding ground to get clubs up to speed - it should be the place where the ready and the elite battle it out - the Championship should be where clubs get up to scratch, and those clubs need the financial support to do it.
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| Quote ="gutterfax"
... Now...stay with me here.......as much as London and the SE has no "walk up and pay at the door" value as a fan based sport....to your media planner (who loves stats BTW.....oh he also lives in the SE of England/London), SKY sports becomes a better viable option......
...so there you have it! SKY want a pro london RL team to help them sell advertising!'"
You haven't established that having a team in London will actually affect the number of SKY viewers who watch RL in the South East. Do you believe that this is the case? Is the effort to establish RL in schools in the area having an effect on what the youngsters watch when they grow up and leave school (and stop playing sports)? This is probably a question to which the answer is unknown, but it was meant as a genuine question, not a dig at anybody. |
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| Quote ="tb"Licences were graded only after they were awarded. Clubs which didn't win a licence didn't have their licence graded, for the fairly obvious reason that they didn't have a licence to grade. So no – 11 applicants didn't get a C grade of which only six were picked.'"
This just isn't true. C grade is the lowest grade you could get, there was no ungraded option. So therefore a C grade is as good as ungraded. |
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| Quote ="Saddened!"Seriously, can someone tell me why Widnes are perceived to be a good option? Poor crowds in NL, don't produce a lot of quality from their youth system, went bankrupt on low crowds and poor results last time in Super League. Lets face it they are hardly Super.'"
Why do we have to be? All we have to be is better than the worst and we are comfortably.
You've shown how little you understand. We don't get poor crowds in the National Leagues, only Castleford have averaged more than us in this league in the last 15 odd years and they were for one-off seasons where they went straight back up. So that includes, Wakey, Salford, Hull KR, Huddersfield and all the rest who've had a shot at it.
We are currently on a winning run of something like 8 games in the Super League Academy U18's, including beating Wire, Leeds, Saints etc. Sure we'll produce some youth from them.
We didn't go bankrupt on low crowds and actually had the 7th highest crowds out of 12 clubs when we were in Super League. Comfortably higher than Salford, Wakey, Quins and Huddersfield at the time. In our final year we nearly averaged 7,000 despite getting relegated. We went bankrupt trying to get back into Super League, we actually turned a profit one year. The administration took a gamble that being in Super League would be more beneficial than not being in Super League when licensing came around. Can't see where they were wrong to be honest.
Put it this way, if Widnes had stayed in Super League at the expense of one of the clubs coming down would people really be saying Widnes should be replaced by Salford, Wakefield or Castleford? We wouldn't even be in the running to go down. |
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The thought that occurred to me as I was eating my boiled eggy this morning was that as Saints are being allowed to play at Widnes while their new ground is building, if Wakey manage to get planning permission for their new ground, have the diggers in and a ground share agreement with Barnsley in place while the new ground's being built before the application deadline, then the RFL can't exclude them on inadequate facilties. I foresee thing getting even nastier and messier than we all imagined!
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| Quote ="Maximus Decimus"Why do we have to be? All we have to be is better than the worst and we are comfortably.
You've shown how little you understand. We don't get poor crowds in the National Leagues, only Castleford have averaged more than us in this league in the last 15 odd years and they were for one-off seasons where they went straight back up. So that includes, Wakey, Salford, Hull KR, Huddersfield and all the rest who've had a shot at it.
We are currently on a winning run of something like 8 games in the Super League Academy U18's, including beating Wire, Leeds, Saints etc. Sure we'll produce some youth from them.
We didn't go bankrupt on low crowds and actually had the 7th highest crowds out of 12 clubs when we were in Super League. Comfortably higher than Salford, Wakey, Quins and Huddersfield at the time. In our final year we nearly averaged 7,000 despite getting relegated. We went bankrupt trying to get back into Super League, we actually turned a profit one year. The administration took a gamble that being in Super League would be more beneficial than not being in Super League when licensing came around. Can't see where they were wrong to be honest.
Put it this way, if Widnes had stayed in Super League at the expense of one of the clubs coming down would people really be saying Widnes should be replaced by Salford, Wakefield or Castleford? We wouldn't even be in the running to go down.'"
Well said mate.Fans are only having a dig at Widnes because we are a threat to them.If teams like Wakey,Cas,Salford,London,Crusaders etc spent 4 or 5yrs in the Championship their attendances would plummet.Widnes have had close to quins,crusaders,and Salford attendances in this league.If was in Superleague i know several fans who will come back to watch Widnes.It is hard to pay £15 to watch a game against Batley,keighley or Toulouse with no away support.Does not help as the quality is not as good aswell.Give Widnes a chance then O connor can spend his money, and see our attendances get upto 7-8000 on average.  |
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| Quote ="The Chronicler of Chiswic" I foresee thing getting even nastier and messier than we all imagined!'"
Could there be fatalities i wonder 
Leiutenant Columbo would eat Ted Richardson for breakfast. |
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| Quote ="The Prodigal Don"The whole point of franchising is to get the strongest clubs into Super League. Surely the reason everyone as to hand in an application is so that The RFL can decide which fourteen applications are best and give them the fourteen places. If they are going to give a place to a Championship club regardless of whether they have one of the best fourteen applications or not, then the application process is irrelevant and the point of franchising as been forgotten.'"
Agree completely. it seems like they're almost trying to bring a form of P & R back to keep Championship clubs interested. |
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| Gimme a Q
Gimme a U
Gimme an I
Gimme an N
Gimme an S
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So if whoever gets kicked out of superleague, are you going to jump on the hate crusaders band wagon too(presuming the saders are not kicked out of course).
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| Quote ="Spongolium"So if whoever gets kicked out of superleague, are you going to jump on the hate crusaders band wagon too(presuming the saders are not kicked out of course).'"
I don't think there is a hate Crusaders bandwagon, a skateboard maybe but not a band wagon. The vast majority of posters on here have been very supportive/complimentary to the Crusaders. |
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Wakefield Trinity Wildcats Statement
During recent weeks the club has become concerned about the number of inaccuracies being reported regarding our move to be anchor tenants at the Newmarket stadium. These inaccuracies have led to speculation amongst shareholders, sponsors and supporters and we would like to take this opportunity to confirm our position on the following points:
The Site:
The land at Newmarket covers just under 214 acres of land of which around 60 acres is being utilised for sport and leisure facilities. The land was originally part of the Newmarket colliery site which makes up 135 acres of brown belt land at the site.
Key Partners:
Colin Mackie is Managing Director of Yorkcourt Properties Limited the Developers.
Sir Rodney Walker is Chairman of the Wakefield & District Community Trust. This Trust has been formed to deliver the sport and leisure complex for the District of Wakefield. The Trust will be the owners of the Stadium once the development completes.
Wakefield Trinity Wildcats – have been accepted to be anchor tenant at the Newmarket Stadium.
Wakefield Metropolitan District Council have pledged support to the stadium development in the form of a land donation to Wakefield & District Community Trust. The value of this support is currently £2million and can only be made to a Trust, the Council cannot make a donation to a Limited Company.
Stadium & Leisure:
The Stadium will have a 12,000 capacity with a mix of seated and standing accommodation and has the flexibility to increase to a 15,000 capacity at a later stage.
The plans have been designed to deliver Health, Education, Sport and Leisure for the District and the complex will include a training barn with 3 G pitches. Discussions are well underway with a variety of end users incorporating football; two major Leisure Developers one of which would provide swimming facilities; space for charitable trust partners; local colleges and universities; Health Trusts and park and ride facilities. The Business Plan is in final stages of completion showing a sustainable viable business for the facilities.
Whilst the stadium will be a community stadium it is a private development and not a Council development although we are grateful to the Council for their help and support in the donation of the land to the Trust and their ongoing support for the project.
Stadium Review:
Neither Wakefield nor Castleford were asked to be involved in a feasibility study but were asked to be involved in a review. Each club was asked to partake in a review of their respective stadium developments by Wakefield Council. On receipt of this request Wakefield Trinity wrote to Wakefield Council and confirmed that any review would need to be carried out with Wakefield & District Community Trust and the Developer as the club is only to be the anchor tenant and the other parties would need to be involved in any process.
Wakefield & District Community Trust wrote to Wakefield Council to confirm they would take part in the review process once they had seen the draft scope for the review. During discussions it became apparent that this review would cost around £30,000. Wakefield & District Community Trust, Yorkcourt Properties and the club attended a meeting at Wakefield Council. =#FF4080At this meeting in light of the substantial progress reported and confirmation that funding was available thereby giving it a high likelihood of being successfully delivered it was agreed by all parties that a review was not necessary and that the Newmarket project should forge ahead to deliver sport and leisure facilities for the District.
Ground Share:
Wakefield & District Community Trust wrote to sporting organisations in the District and invited letters of interest in using the facilities at Newmarket. Wakefield Trinity Wildcats confirmed their interest and are to be anchor tenants at the facility. The same letter was sent to Castleford Tigers and Featherstone Rovers who are both developing their own stadiums, neither club were interested in becoming involved at the Newmarket site.
The Club want to place on record that whilst it is delighted to be an anchor tenant at Newmarket it is also looking forward to Wakefield & District Community Trust continuing its work to secure other end users at the facility. The club has always maintained that the facilities need to be widely used and the Trust, the Developer and Wakefield Council are all aware that Wakefield Trinity as anchor tenants are happy to ground share with any other willing partners of the Trust.
In a statement issued on 25th July the club said “ . . .the Wildcats would concentrate their support for Newmarket and that a move to Glasshoughton was not an option”
From this statement many sources have reported that the Club will not ground share, this is not the case. We are happy to ground share but we are not looking to utilise any facilities which may eventually be developed at Glasshoughton.
Timescales:
An application for outline planning permission was made in February 2010, we are hopeful that a decision on this application will now be made in September 2010. Plans for the detailed permission are ready to be submitted and the stadium build is a 46 week process. All parties concerned in the process are aware of the Super League timescale for Licensing.
Yorkcourt Properties have been working with internationally acclaimed architects DLA Limited, if you visit their website on www.dla-architecture.co.uk and look under projects and sport the Newmarket stadium details are listed along with other projects DLA have worked on such as the MEN Arena and other international projects. The architects have been in place since the very beginning of this project and are key to making this work. Detailed plans for the Newmarket stadium are ready to be submitted to the next stage of planning once outline planning is granted.
To place this in context, outline planning permission was granted at Glasshoughton in 2005, on 6th May 2010 Castleford confirmed that architects for the detailed plans were announced from a shortlist of 18.
We feel we have made excellent progress in just under 2 years in reaching this stage and whilst there is still work to be done we are delighted to be in the position we are in.
These are exciting times for everyone involved in this project and the amount of work being done should not be underestimated. Key personnel are already heavily involved in training and preparing for the move to Newmarket and have attended the European Venue Management Institute course for Strategic Stadium Business Management; the Healthy Stadia Network Conference and the Stadium Business Summit Conference in Dublin and will attend the Sports and Events Management Conference at Twickenham later in the year. St. Helens RFL had also attended some of these events as they prepare for their move from Knowsley Road.
The news on the progress made at Newmarket is excellent for the District and it is hoped that once the whole site is operational then 2,000 jobs will be created helping regeneration for the region. |
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Wakefield Trinity Wildcats Statement
During recent weeks the club has become concerned about the number of inaccuracies being reported regarding our move to be anchor tenants at the Newmarket stadium. These inaccuracies have led to speculation amongst shareholders, sponsors and supporters and we would like to take this opportunity to confirm our position on the following points:
The Site:
The land at Newmarket covers just under 214 acres of land of which around 60 acres is being utilised for sport and leisure facilities. The land was originally part of the Newmarket colliery site which makes up 135 acres of brown belt land at the site.
Key Partners:
Colin Mackie is Managing Director of Yorkcourt Properties Limited the Developers.
Sir Rodney Walker is Chairman of the Wakefield & District Community Trust. This Trust has been formed to deliver the sport and leisure complex for the District of Wakefield. The Trust will be the owners of the Stadium once the development completes.
Wakefield Trinity Wildcats – have been accepted to be anchor tenant at the Newmarket Stadium.
Wakefield Metropolitan District Council have pledged support to the stadium development in the form of a land donation to Wakefield & District Community Trust. The value of this support is currently £2million and can only be made to a Trust, the Council cannot make a donation to a Limited Company.
Stadium & Leisure:
The Stadium will have a 12,000 capacity with a mix of seated and standing accommodation and has the flexibility to increase to a 15,000 capacity at a later stage.
The plans have been designed to deliver Health, Education, Sport and Leisure for the District and the complex will include a training barn with 3 G pitches. Discussions are well underway with a variety of end users incorporating football; two major Leisure Developers one of which would provide swimming facilities; space for charitable trust partners; local colleges and universities; Health Trusts and park and ride facilities. The Business Plan is in final stages of completion showing a sustainable viable business for the facilities.
Whilst the stadium will be a community stadium it is a private development and not a Council development although we are grateful to the Council for their help and support in the donation of the land to the Trust and their ongoing support for the project.
Stadium Review:
Neither Wakefield nor Castleford were asked to be involved in a feasibility study but were asked to be involved in a review. Each club was asked to partake in a review of their respective stadium developments by Wakefield Council. On receipt of this request Wakefield Trinity wrote to Wakefield Council and confirmed that any review would need to be carried out with Wakefield & District Community Trust and the Developer as the club is only to be the anchor tenant and the other parties would need to be involved in any process.
Wakefield & District Community Trust wrote to Wakefield Council to confirm they would take part in the review process once they had seen the draft scope for the review. During discussions it became apparent that this review would cost around £30,000. Wakefield & District Community Trust, Yorkcourt Properties and the club attended a meeting at Wakefield Council. =#FF4080At this meeting in light of the substantial progress reported and confirmation that funding was available thereby giving it a high likelihood of being successfully delivered it was agreed by all parties that a review was not necessary and that the Newmarket project should forge ahead to deliver sport and leisure facilities for the District.
Ground Share:
Wakefield & District Community Trust wrote to sporting organisations in the District and invited letters of interest in using the facilities at Newmarket. Wakefield Trinity Wildcats confirmed their interest and are to be anchor tenants at the facility. The same letter was sent to Castleford Tigers and Featherstone Rovers who are both developing their own stadiums, neither club were interested in becoming involved at the Newmarket site.
The Club want to place on record that whilst it is delighted to be an anchor tenant at Newmarket it is also looking forward to Wakefield & District Community Trust continuing its work to secure other end users at the facility. The club has always maintained that the facilities need to be widely used and the Trust, the Developer and Wakefield Council are all aware that Wakefield Trinity as anchor tenants are happy to ground share with any other willing partners of the Trust.
In a statement issued on 25th July the club said “ . . .the Wildcats would concentrate their support for Newmarket and that a move to Glasshoughton was not an option”
From this statement many sources have reported that the Club will not ground share, this is not the case. We are happy to ground share but we are not looking to utilise any facilities which may eventually be developed at Glasshoughton.
Timescales:
An application for outline planning permission was made in February 2010, we are hopeful that a decision on this application will now be made in September 2010. Plans for the detailed permission are ready to be submitted and the stadium build is a 46 week process. All parties concerned in the process are aware of the Super League timescale for Licensing.
Yorkcourt Properties have been working with internationally acclaimed architects DLA Limited, if you visit their website on www.dla-architecture.co.uk and look under projects and sport the Newmarket stadium details are listed along with other projects DLA have worked on such as the MEN Arena and other international projects. The architects have been in place since the very beginning of this project and are key to making this work. Detailed plans for the Newmarket stadium are ready to be submitted to the next stage of planning once outline planning is granted.
To place this in context, outline planning permission was granted at Glasshoughton in 2005, on 6th May 2010 Castleford confirmed that architects for the detailed plans were announced from a shortlist of 18.
We feel we have made excellent progress in just under 2 years in reaching this stage and whilst there is still work to be done we are delighted to be in the position we are in.
These are exciting times for everyone involved in this project and the amount of work being done should not be underestimated. Key personnel are already heavily involved in training and preparing for the move to Newmarket and have attended the European Venue Management Institute course for Strategic Stadium Business Management; the Healthy Stadia Network Conference and the Stadium Business Summit Conference in Dublin and will attend the Sports and Events Management Conference at Twickenham later in the year. St. Helens RFL had also attended some of these events as they prepare for their move from Knowsley Road.
The news on the progress made at Newmarket is excellent for the District and it is hoped that once the whole site is operational then 2,000 jobs will be created helping regeneration for the region. | |
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| Quote ="Gazemous"The only clubs fit for Super League at the moment are Hull FC, Saints (when they move), Warrington, Wigan, Leeds, Catalans and Huddersfield.
The rest either have a ground issues (Bradford, KR, Cas, Wakey, Salford, or embarrassing attendances (Crusaders, Quins, Salford - again).
'"
A good sum up of the situation. Fans take it very personally when their club is singled out as a team that may drop down but there are plenty of fans in places like Widnes, Halifax and Cumbria that really want a team. Sky are not a charity and they want to broadcast a high quality league that covers a wide area. The bottom line is you have to contribute to the league in some way (good junior system/large fan base/modern stadium). Superleague has been around for a long time and many clubs have not moved on in that time. If a club is not progressing others deserve a go.
It is interesting how they have seperated the "promoted team" announcement from the licencing announcement. I assume this is so they can promote Widnes/Halifax/Barrow and then give Toulouse a licence when the licences are announced a few months later. Therefore they are not giving Toulouse a licence at the expense of another Championship club.
I am with everyone else I think the teams in trouble are Salford/Castleford/Wakefield. I can't help feeling with the player rumoured to be leaving the club at the end of the year that Castleford may have a poor start to next year that will swing that axe their way. Wakefield are in trouble too as they have the worst ground in the league by a distance. Salford is all about their ground. If there is something at Barton when the choice is made then they are safe. I will be very surprised if Castleford or Wakefield get there own stand allow stadium. Wakefield choosing to go solo on the stadia could be the death nail for both clubs.
My prediction. Castleford and Wakefield to go down. Widnes to get promoted and Toulouse to be given a licence after being invited by the RFL to apply. |
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| Quote ="SBR"wakefieldwildcats.co.uk/2010/08/community-trust-stadium-wakefild-trinity-wildcats-statement/'"
2 down one to go.
Come on Salford - get in on the act !!! |
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| Quote ="littlerich"2 down one to go.
Come on Salford - get in on the act !!!'"
I don't think Salford need a press release as their stadium isn't fictional. |
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| Quote ="littlerich"2 down one to go.
Come on Salford - get in on the act !!!'"
What's the point? The Wakey PR has a couple of digs at Cas as it is, the best thing for Cas to do would be to get on with it, and not indulge in tit-for-tat press releases.
They've already announced that plans will be revealed before the Leeds game. |
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