I like O'Connor as a fella, he is fairly knowledgable about the game, but he's just not a good fit for TV punditry....
I find his tone of voice excruciating.... He always sounds like he's trying really hard to first of all try and hide his accent, then to try and sound intellectual and finally sound sincere in everything he's saying - so he ends up sounding really false... I watched the Leeds game back on TV and felt his tone really made the game seem downbeat and stale... Certainly doesn't whip up an atmosphere or the excitement levels...

Stevo back next week in place of 'Baz and Tez'... praise the lord.

And i never thought i would be agreeing to that

The sooner Carney gets the main gig the better.

He struggles to string a sentence together without stumbling over his words.

I must say, I find these threads incredibly tedious.

It is though- sadly few teams will allow their players the flexibility of being a professional rugby player whilst learning or training in an alternative profession. It's quite unusual for someone to have got a degree and then further professional qualifications in an area outside of sport. Youngsters aren't able to do a-levels etc - A few players do their coaching badges or sports degrees but little outside that.

IIRC Paul Prescott did a Law Degree whilst at Wigan and the club has some kind of arrangement with UCLan.

Er, does that actually mean anything at all?

Ok, so McDermott's insight or knowledge of the game is limited to
(a) over a decade of playing at the top level of the game,
(b) most of it with Leeds
(c) over 20 international appearances
That counts as the proverbial "glittering career", without even going on to list the trophies he has won.

So what other "insight or knowledge of the game outside his own career on the field" can you possibly mean? Where exactly do you say his "knowledge of the game" is lacking? How does this lack of knowledge manifest itself, because I'm struggling to understand what you could possibly mean.

if a player with as distinguished a career as that hasn't got enough insight, then who has? And why do they have more of this "insight" than him?

Of all the people in the world (and they would have had a lot of applicants) Leeds appointed Leeds Hall Of Famer McDermott as Head of Youth Development, with a staff of 25 working under him. Not, on the face of it, evidence of any lack of insight or knowledge.

As for commentary, he isn't on the comentary team, Eddie does the commentary. McDermott provides additional comments - not commentary. there is a huge difference.

Personally I find his humorous style adds a lot. How you can say he isn't "articulate" though, is the biggest mystery. Maybe you mean he doesn't speak with a posh voice? McDermott is hugely articulate, and in other settings the problem would actually be shutting him up! Here is what Martyn Torr of the Oldham Evening Chronicle, just for one random example, made of him when he interviewed him a few years back:



Or maybe you know better?

Did you write this in 1997, but only just post it?

Quote ="jools"It is though- sadly few teams will allow their players the flexibility of being a professional rugby player whilst learning or training in an alternative profession. It's quite unusual for someone to have got a degree and then further professional qualifications in an area outside of sport. Youngsters aren't able to do a-levels etc - A few players do their coaching badges or sports degrees but little outside that.'" Maybe thats just at the giants, i know at warrington they're very sympathetic to this sort of thing and encourage players to spend their free time wisely, hence chris hill having got his his plumbing qualification and now has that as a side business, Mark hilton (aaaaages ago) got a degree and ended up being a maths teachers locally and jon clarke , well, read for yourself www.chester.ac.uk/graduation/gra ... ton-wolves

Quote ="jools"It is though- sadly few teams will allow their players the flexibility of being a professional rugby player whilst learning or training in an alternative profession. It's quite unusual for someone to have got a degree and then further professional qualifications in an area outside of sport. Youngsters aren't able to do a-levels etc - A few players do their coaching badges or sports degrees but little outside that.'" Maybe thats just at the giants, i know at warrington they're very sympathetic to this sort of thing and encourage players to spend their free time wisely, hence chris hill having got his his plumbing qualification and now has that as a side business, Mark hilton (aaaaages ago) got a degree and ended up being a maths teachers locally and jon clarke , well, read for yourself www.chester.ac.uk/graduation/gra ... ton-wolves

You misundersrood- I didn't mean they didn't do NVqs in plumbing or like Like, and yes I said Sports degrees and fitness teIning certificates-plenty have those. Giants either do plumbing/plastering/ or sports stuff as they are linked to Loughborough uni. I'm talking about alternative professional qualifications. It's not an easy thing to qualify as a chartered surveyor!

He's supposed to provide commentary- so it would be helpful if he was up to date with the rules- which doesn't appear to be the case as he's always being corrected by Cummings- he doesn't even know what constitutes a forward pass!!!! Mind neither do a lot on here.
There's a big difference between being a chess piece in a game and being a grand master. Imagine him trying to do what wells does!

I was thinking broadly the same thing; even at lowly Wakefield, Academy lads are supported in further education - whether that be vocational stuff, or A levels - they even have an education partner to oversee this stuff and make sure the participation of the players involved is meaningful and taken seriously.

And don't the Giants have a partnership with Greenhead College - one of the finest 6th form colleges in the country?

Think you're sadly getting your wires crossed. McDermott and O'Connor are there to give Punditry advice not commentate. There's a massive difference between the two.

No he isn't! You just made that up!



And that! Of course he does!

Well, yes. I have got to give you that one.







But why? And anyway, I bet he'd have a good go at it, in his own style. Though he's not in a Wells role so I'm not sure why I need to try. Imagine him trying to do what Lewis Hamilton does!

Pundits are supposed to add some sort of insight that would be unavailable to an average viewer. McDermott doesn't do this. He may have played the sport and therefore understand what it takes physically and mentally to succeed at the top level, but he appears to have little to no tactical knowledge and offers no meaningful analysis of the match or anything that is happening. It's like listening to a fan with a microphone. Although I agree that he is relatively articulate and contributes somewhat compared to O'Connor, who is lacking in all aspects.

No - I haven't. Whether he's just playing devils advocate who knows.
Like many fans he thinks that if a ball goes forward the pass must be forward! And wtf has racing got to do with it? He might not have wells job but he wouldn't be able to break down plays And explain the why and wherefores- his insight into the technical aspects of the game is limited. He doesn't commentate the game, he's not a real pundit, so why is he there? He's turning into another Stevo-I just don't see the point.

At this point shall we recall that wells himself has a law degree, that he attained alongside his playing career, therefore also crapping on kooks other theory about lack of qualifications etc.

I didn't say there were none- just not many- These are exceptions rather than rules- which is exactly why it was made a big deal of by the sky team. Perhaps it says more about the kind of people that play RL.....

Most players in the U19's are part time and either doing A-Levels or at College.
It isn't then a leap to do a degree.
Plenty of players are doing or have done a degree.
It's just the perception of RL is that players are stupid. Partly it's a northern thing. The media and society in general is happy to further the myth that northerners are stupid/uneducated and unfortunately too many people buy into that myth.
Barrie Mac was (and regularly does) trying to overturn that perception by pointing out Broughtons education and qualifications, the only problem was he made a bit too much of it all.

Barrie might struggle to get in Lewis' car

End of Saints' first set. Stevo: "Saints look lost"

St Helens v Leeds. This is much more enjoyable without O'Connor and with Stevo back in place!

Wash your mouth out with soap young man!!!!!

O ...,.......y No! O'Connor's back on. Chuff me. What's with the faux gruff voice? Get off!! £1,000 to charity from me if O'Connor can get through a match with getting his grammar wrong or saying "you" "your" or "set a 6" (I'd allow "set of 6" I suppose).