Former man of steel, James Graham is a born and bred scouser.

Quite possibly but I doubt it. As far as these clubs and towns are concerned there are obviously ex pat Liverpudlians living there, but, I'm not sure that they make up that much of a percentage of the crowds, certainly not at Warrington in my experience, the others may differ because they are nearer (more Liverpudlian

).

In addition, I don't think that these clubs draw supporters in great numbers from the City of Liverpool itself so little concern as far as it goes from me. If they get to be successful and attract say 10,000 plus, the majority IMO will be 'new' fans rather than nabbing a couple of thousand from each of the clubs that you mentioned if that's what you were driving at?

We share a border with Widnes, Salford, Leigh Wigan and St Helens and I hope that the new club venture some 20 miles away from my patch is a success. (Again I doubt it, concurring with Pat's Plastic Pitch) as I think it could be good for the game.

In Warrington's case, as we are equidistant you could also say that a successful new team in Manchester will be of a concern, but, it again it isn't

when did Salford move away from Salford the new ground may be over side of motorway but it is still in Salford

Possibly one or two new people have been born in Liverpool in the past 70 years.

Koukash mentioned Sefton

The only grounds I can think of in Sefton are Haig Avenue or New Bucks Park.

Will he give the team a ridiculous name like Southport Sandgrounders or Bootle Boot Boys?

Quote ="nathancroucher"Koukash mentioned Sefton The only grounds I can think of in Sefton are Haig Avenue or New Bucks Park. Will he give the team a ridiculous name like Southport Sandgrounders or Bootle Boot Boys?'" There's Marine too, and Waterloo Rugby Club. Plus City of Liverpool FC are hoping to build a 5000 capacity stadium in Fazakerley. This is classed as Liverpool but is on the border of Knowsley and Sefton. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... d-15563795

Quote ="nathancroucher"Koukash mentioned Sefton The only grounds I can think of in Sefton are Haig Avenue or New Bucks Park. Will he give the team a ridiculous name like Southport Sandgrounders or Bootle Boot Boys?'" There's Marine too, and Waterloo Rugby Club. Plus City of Liverpool FC are hoping to build a 5000 capacity stadium in Fazakerley. This is classed as Liverpool but is on the border of Knowsley and Sefton. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... d-15563795

He might be thinking of a link up with Southport FC. As for the argument about a successful Liverpool club taking fans from other clubs ,that is a non starter.

Why a non starter ?
Of course it depends on a number of factors. Whethere any current or POTENTIAL fans of those clubs currently travel from outside the locality (especially any from "Liverpool" itself) to attend games, the success of the new club, compared to the success (or lack of it) from the clubs mentioned and of course the old rugby league issue of promotion and advertising.
What if for instance, Widnes were languishing in the lower half of the Championship (or worse) ?
Would youn Billy from Widnes be drawn to the "glitz and glamour" of a new successful Liverpool side or would he prefer to go with his home town club ?
In my previous post, I mentioned large numbers of folk from Wakefield being drawn in by Bull Mania and they were more than happy to travel the 20+ miles to watch an all conquering Bulls side so to call this a non starter is just plain naïve.

In the other code, Wasps upped sticks and moved to Coventry and large numbers of their fans moved with them.

People will travel to watch a successful side.
Of course, there is a hell of a long way to go here and it's pure speculation but, it could happen.

Really, well shame on them. I could NEVER imagine a situation where swathes of let's say Widnesians suddenly thought, you know what I'm fed up of this malarkey, let's go and watch Saints or Wigan I'd like to support a GF winning team

Rugby League is a more parochially supported sport than would draw fans to watch a big city club because it is called Liverpool. The same mentality that will not let Cas & Wakey share a ground & if there would be such a great pull from a big city club , there would only be Leeds, Bradford & Hull operating in Yorkshire.

Spot on 9A (also I didn't want to bring the ground thing up as it gets people 'excited')

The nucleus of fans and certainly those who are supporting Widnes in the Championship would NEVER support another side but, loads of supporters go to watch a game of RL and are not just 100% for their side.
Why else do attendances fluctuate so much and drop so steeply when a side is relegated, with the exception of KR, who's support was commendable during their recent spell in The Championship and where are all of those Bulls fans from a few years ago ?
Do you honestly think that none of them have started watching elsewhere or do you believe that they are merely hibernating, like squirrels in "the longest winter" ??

Better for Mr Koukash to become joint owner of London Broncos and pump money into London Broncos. He could make the team more successful and get national publicity from the national media which is based in London. He still has until June 30 I think to buy new players for London -- a half and couple of big props from the NRL reserve roster.

KouKash, as quoted on the bbc website, reckons buying then re-branding a club is an option.

Buying Widnes, which already has a stadium in Widnes, is a crazy idea. St Helens is already established in St Helens with a strong local following. Koukash's ideas are unrealistic

Whilst there are general RL fans that might turn out to watch a game not involving their side (I even went to Wigan v Saints last year) I wasn't contemplating making the switch to one or the other anytime soon so in the context of this thread and YOUR suggestion that a successful Liverpool RL Club were a perceived threat to Warrington Widnes and Saints then I'm not swayed.

If you are suggesting that attendances "fluctuate so much" at relegated teams because they've suddenly buzzed off to support another local team then again I'm not buying it. People get disillusioned and will either stop going or pick their games and there are decent fixtures in the Championship I suspect Leigh v Widnes in either division would have a comparable crowd. Voting with your feet may involve none RL weekends

And finally, although I don't really know this for sure perhaps a Bratford fan can tell us both, but, yes I think that the biggest fall in attendance can be accounted for a great marketing strategy and a successful side attracting healthy crowds with a sharp reduction being accounted for by disillusioned locals giving up rather than returning to watch Halifax Wakefield etc the "squirrels hibernating in winter" if you like.

As a matter of interest since Bradford's demise in the corresponding period have your crowds rocketed with all of these returning 'rats'?

Buying Widnes, which already has a stadium in Widnes, and re-branding it Liverpool, is a crazy idea.

St Helens is already established in St Helens with a good stadium, and a strong local following which does not identify with and does not want to be re-branded Liverpool. Ditto for Warrington.

Koukash's ideas are quite unrealistic.

Like I have already said, Koukash becoming joint owner of London Broncos, pumping money into three more decent key players, getting seriously into marketing, and finding a decent stadium in London, will do more for the growth of the game than the Liverpool concept.

However, and to be fair he does have friends and potential partners in the North and was interested in (none RL) development opportunities which just might just be more achievable nearer home?

Wakefields attendances have increased a little but havent rocketed up, although Cas and Leeds have increased ,possibly due to their success (although Leeds have been following good years with bad etc) and where have those fans come from ? Interested locals, lapsed fans or fickle glory hunters, possibly a mix of all 3.
The point is that, in the North of England, there doesn't seem to be a huge untapped market for RL and I believe that there may well be some newbies that attach themselves to any new club, especially if they are successful and "Liverpool" as a sporting brand would expect to do as well as any other, although Salford "Red Devils" certainly didn't - although not successful (in terms of silverware) and most interestingly, Koucash got bored /frustrated far, far too quickly so, we will never know what could/would happen if they made it to the top.

I think you and I now kind of agree which we didn't seem to a post or two ago?

I'm not looking for an argument, argument, but, your original supposition to support the Liverpool threat to our local clubs seemed to read that Bradford's 15k 2003 crowd was made up of 5k die hard's and hoards of floating voters dragged in from Bradford's 'hinterland', Wakefield included?

Your steady 5k average during the rise and fall of Bradford's fortunes seems to suggest that this is not the case we are not that naive to be unconcerned and might even suggest that your squirrel in winter analogy wasn't so nuts after all

Barton pal, a bit like Castleford is in Wakefield but its Castleford yes

Another black hole for Koukash's money

Yes, Liverpool City and Huyton were roaring successes weren't they? Regularly got 40,000 per match.

If the club is properly put together -

- they have a long term stadium to play in that will allow for a decent sized crowd along with room for that crowd to grow.
- the team is utilizes local amateur talent along with a scattering of seasoned players
- has a sustainable junior development programme in place from day 1
- is properly marketed along with the game of RL to the local community and schools so that you can engage a decent ground swell of fans in the area.
- there is a proper long term, sustainable plan for the club's growth

Then I don't see why it would be a failure. Slow and steady wins the race. It's been shown that when you rush a club into an area which doesn't have strong RL roots they tend to flounder

John Desmond the Doncaster chairman sold Tattersfield to a property & construction company & this left the Dons homeless.

I believe the RFL paid Geoff Fletcher a some of money for his team to terminate there membership of the RFL