THat isnt a good Argument in favour of a points deduction is it. Just doing something, anything, regardless of it being right, wrong, productive, useful is not a good way to run the game.



That’s an argument against relegation and the obvious downfalls of it. Its not really an argument in favour of a points deduction.

The Alternative would be to punish the owners of clubs by banning them from involvement in RL again, putting them on a ‘bad investors’ blacklist. I would be happy to look at owners being personally liable for a £100k fine should they go into admin as part of their agreement to take on the golden share.

So I’ve finally eked it out of you, blacklisted & a fine.

I'd be quite happy for Khan, Hood and Co to be blacklisted and fined.

They should be banned from entering a RL stadium and hung by their goolies from the nearest lamppost - can I have that too?

Quite. I don't know if Bradford should get any points back or not, although obviously I'd like all six back. Having said that, a deposit by the owners with the RFL of £100k or something of that ilk would make more sense to me than applying a points deduction. I can see plenty of issues with the implementation though, so who knows how that would work...

They’ll probably get an Amigo Loan, with Smokey acting as Guarantor!

I meant more as a general approach rather than a special 'keep Bradford on the straight and narrow' measure. But yes, I don't know if there's any way of distinguishing between a bond paid with an individual's personal money rather than with a loan taken out against the club, which would entirely undermine the point.

One of the points being missed here is that a National Governing Body has to have sanctions against its clubs if they go into Administration. It's a prerequisite for being recognised by Grant Organisations like Sport England.

The HMRC also expect nay demand that a NGB has sanctions and penalties to deter its Member a Clubs from seeking to avoid its tax responsibilities by way of Administration. Without that NGB cooperation HMRC would not allow sports clubs to enjoy the freedom of payment schemes which normal businesses cannot access.

One of the points being missed by you is that Bradford's case doesn't fit your bill. The previous owners were put into administration not chose it, and immediately their club was sold from under their feet in a pre-pack to persons who were not a party to the failed business/owners, but brand new people. To say that OKB sought to avoid its tax responsibilities by way of administration would be simply rubbish.

Neither can you say BB2014 or its directors benefited directly or indirectly as a new business since they in the event pulled out of the deal, and so the final winning bidder, BBNL, not only had no connection with previous management but was one step removed.

The member cub was OK Bulls Ltd. Self-evidently, the sanctions and penalties did not "deter" it from going into administration. It didn't go into administration. It was put into administration by a major creditor.

Bradford Bulls more than any club deserved the 6 points deduction. Second Administration in next to no time. The punishment is for spending more than you can afford on players - therefore cheating other clubs and their players and their supporters by getting some wins unfairly.

Not paying HMRC the tax, national insurance and VAT owed for 6 month's running is no way to responsibly run any club.

The owner was in effect also punished as it meant he had no chance of getting his money back. - The new owners have benefitted as the Bradford Bulls Club with a 6 point deduction cost them less than it would have done without the 6 point deduction.

If the new owner runs things responsibly within its means from now on, the Club will have stopped cheating and he might have half a chance of getting his money back as well.

You are getting hung up on the notion of a deterrent.

That is only a part of it.

The other, overriding purpose is as a sanction.

And in what was failing to pay the tax obligations, "not avoiding it's responsibilities" to HMRC?

So there was no winding up petition served by HMRC then!

No. A points penalty could be a deterrent to owners who wanted themselves or their associates to remain in charge, but swerve the debt via an administration. Though not much of one, before relegation resumed.

It is the RFL, not me, who pronounced their reasoning for the sanctions. It was the RFL, not me, who waited to see the NEW owners' proposals for repaying the OLD company debts, said they were not satisfied and that in consequence of that, they were deducting 6 points and placing the new owners in special measures. It was thus the RFL that confirmed the link is between the NEW owners, their debt proposals, and sanctions.

The new owners had no responsibility to HMRC for that debt. That was the old owners. If they were connected you'd be right, but here, they are plainly not. Although to be clear I support the notion that if old creditors get shafted then that fact should be proportionately reflected in the sanctions. It was, indisputably OKB that avoided its responsibilities to HMRC. BBNL cannot be accused of that.

What are you talking about?

Who said there wasn't?

I would have assumed everyone knew the sequence of events. If you don't, maybe you should find out before making an even bigger fool of yourself.

I know the sequence of events, a bit touchy aren't you!

I'm merely pointing out that other factors are in play here and it's not just about the RFL and Bulls.
The Bradford Club ran itself ludicrously and incompetently, they have zero regard for the lives and businesses they destroyed, they have total disrespect for their responsibilities to the HMRC and they have nothing but contempt for the fans of the game both Bradford's and beyond.

I hope they lose their appeal and get roundly and publicly lambasted by the independent panel.

they're a joke!

You do? So what was it - memory failure, or trolling?




Not at all, though your rant suggests you are!

"They" may or may not have, but "they" are not the ones to whom sanctions have been applied. As has been pointed out a zillion times especially by Smokey. So what is it - inability to understand a simple fact, or trolling?

See this is what happens when you get your "they"s mixed up. Are you saying Green and BBNL have total disrespect for their responsibilities to the HMRC and they have nothing but contempt for the fans of the game both Bradford's and beyond? If so, you surely have no basis to do so.

Noted, and that's your right. But again, which "they", and why them? What has this particular "they" done that offends your sensibilities?

"They" being the Bradford Bulls, irrespective of who currently claims to own them.
I take it the new owners paid the Bradford Bulls RLFC debt to HMRC then or, like you, is he hiding behind all the rhetoric and spin. "It wasn't me Guv, honest" it's pathetic and demeaning not to mention damaging to the game.

You're in denial, you've convinced yourself that the Bradford Bull RLFC have done nothing wrong.

In his defence I think the whole rugby league community is on the other side to Bradford right now. The club has made a lot of mistakes and is trying to carry on as if nothing has happened. They took money off fans, other owners, yet outbid teams for big players and carried on no matter that their finances weren't up to it. They were helped by the RFL, went into admin twice, and now they are trying to scratch off if anything a lenient punishment and the overwhelming majority are against it.

Thing is, that isn't the fans fault, and no matter how well directed the criticism is it feels like you're in the middle of it. It isn't fair to come down hard on the fans.

Totally 100% agree! except for the deluded ones who bring it on themselves!

Agree with The Avenger & much of what you say.

But to be a fan of any club, RL, Soccer or whatever, means you know in advance that you are going to have to be man enough to take the rough with the smooth, the losses and relegations as well as the wins, promotions and trophies (if you are lucky).

The fans will sing their 'we can see you sneaking out's and 'sing when you're winning's etc. in the good times - but have to learn to take it in the bad times.

A minority of Bradford Bulls fans (and their apologists on here) will have enjoyed the Bulls' wins when they had those top players on wages they they couldn't afford but, now,when they are suffering points deductions and loss of some of those players they couldn't afford, they not only don't like it they can't accept it.

They try to find anybody they can to blame rather than accept it's their Club that has cheated and has to suffer the inevitable penalties.

Grow up and live with it I say.

I am not going to bother with your schoolboy shoite any more since not only is your intellect seemingly unable to grasp the existence of different humans and different companies, but more idiotically you clearly have not read, nor have any intention of reading, what I have actually said - on very many occasions, on various threads - about all those issues, and your weird attempts to put words in my mouth are just too ridiculous. "In denial", ffs. Please grow up. Either take the trouble to read my opinions or, if you don't want to, then I'll thank you not to make them up.

I'm finding it hard enough to read your answers to my posts let alone sifting through pages of your previous drivel.

Take this advice, Seek some help!

This is nonsense. There is a clear difference here between what's going on on the pitch and the follies and mistakes of the owners. One is playful, jovial banter, the other is gloating. We can choose to get involved in either, or both. But it's not the same. There are different sides to the club. The playing side and the business side are two. The business side is not something usually chanted from the terraces, and it's not really in the spirit of what we all get into sport for.

Yes, that is right. We were top of the league by 20 points when we went tits first time and again we were unbeaten and had won league and cup, and the Ashes, and the Boat Race, the second time we went tits. Every player in the Australian Test side had deserted their NRL club and was at Bradford. We supplied the whole England squad throughout the period.

It is not at all the case that we haven't even made the playoffs for many years. Oh no.

Do you even follow rugby league? I mean, how could you make such a mistake if you do?


You're just making shiit up again. Nobody is arguing that they don't have to suffer any penalty. Indeed the club has already suffered penalties of an unprecedented magnitude. If you find a poster who actually claims any such nonsense then just resply to that poster. It is ludicrous to make out that Bulls fans in general hold your feverishly invented nutty views.

Keighley does funny things to you. I should know. I live there.

You were funny before you moved there. Otherwise you wouldn't have moved there.