I get it now!

Ha Ha,
You're funny

tim sheens commented on gareth's ability to read defensive plays at the very start of his wests career,which was fair enough.......but he changed his mind after 2weeks...and within a year tim sheens,the australia coach too,said gareth would be select for australia if he was australian...


but yeah he's just another average pom

You do know you'll never change Keith's mind, don't you?!

Ellis is doing very well down under. He is the type of player you certainly need in your team, but he is not a game breaker. He will do the same at International level as he does at NRL level, tackle hard and often, and carry solidly. That will not mean that we beat the Aussies or NZ's, we need to get more players up to the levels that Ellis and Burgess set, especially in the backline.

Ellis is one of the best tacklers in RL at the moment, even Keith knows that

i frequent certain australian RL forums.........and you go tell wests fans gareth ellis is'nt a game breaker...and i'll come and pick up the bits of your body after they've done with you

I'd be very suprised if any Wests Tigers fan (unless they are using the internet whilst on day release) would class Ellis as a gamebreaker. He is an excellent team player. You need players like Ellis, and you need players like Benji Marshall. You probably can't have one without the other infact. But having Gareth Ellis in your ide will not win you a game if your backs are vastly inferior to their opposite numbers, which England's clearly are when coming up against the Southern Hemishere teams.

Has anybody got a link to where Jack Reed has committed to England? He keeps cropping up in peoples squads but I've never seen anywhere that he wants to play for England, infact the last I saw he was hinting against this as he wants to play Origin.

Ellis needed re-educating.

Weren't most of his coaches in SL either Aussies or kiwis? Just goes to show the myth about southern hemisphere coaching I guess.

aye...was'nt his last coach at leeds bluey,then tony smith before that...and shane Mcnally before that

Jack Reed is a quality player who's development this season has surprised everyone. He can play both left and right centre equally well (standing in for Hodges on the right then moving to the left when Hidges is fit). Reed has said he wants to qualify for Origin. Having said that, he's down the pecking order for both Queensland and NSW, so he'd be taking a big punt on his future career panning out. It could be possible to tempt him into putting his hand up for England with the carrot of playing at Wembley this season. Given the absolutely laughable quality of England's centre options at the moment, it would be insane not to at least try to get him.

The issue with respect to Ellis, Morley etc not reproducing NRL form for england is simply down to being amongst a team that's completely outgunned, particularly across the backs. Until we get more real quality in the backs we could have the Queensland Origin pack and we'd still get hammered.

surely Keith Swiftcorn should just add '6 missed tackles and 3 incomplete tackles' to his sig before he ends up with RSI?

he can always change his mind and be playing origin in a few months ala Uate!

he can always change his mind and be playing origin in a few months ala Uate!

Whoever is debating that Ellis isn't a good player is quite simply wrong. Tim Sheens said he was the best dollar for dollar signing the club has ever had. He has been awarded Wests player of the year for 09 and 10. He's probably in the top 5 forwards in the NRL. I'd say the list would be: Gallen, Ellis, Burgess, Thaiday, Scott. (Thats just my opinion)

If Sam Burgess was fit Ellis should play in the centres, as if he had an Inglis running at him he would be able to handle it. If Inglis ran at lets say Shenton, I would be embarassed to see what happens. But because Burgess is injured I think Ellis needs to go back into the second row along side Westwood because I don't think we would be able to put someone in there who would get through as much work as him.

Reed is a good player, regardless if he has only played 20ish games in the NRL he has made the step up comfortably and you would think he would of been playing in the position for the last 3 years in the NRL. If we could get him for England he should go straight in. If he has been mentioned playing origin he is clearly a good player.

People mention our backline being exceptionally weak. The Aus/NZ backline run through our three quarters which is why we lose games. If we sort our defence out we may have a the slightest of chance. If we had everyone fit, and who is eligible for England I would play:

Sam Tomkins
Tom Briscoe
Jack Reed
Gareth Ellis
Jermaine Mcgilvary
Gareth Widdop
Danny Brough
James Graham
James Roby
Adrian Morley
Sam Burgess
Ben Westwood
Sean Oloughlin

Eorl Crabtree
Lee Mossop
Luke Burgess
Jonny Lomax

Well coached, and prepared we could have a chance against the Aussies/NZ. But our coach is useless.

That does look a strong side

A couple of comments

I haven’t seen much at all of Reed so I can’t really comment on him but he would have to be special to get straight into an international side after 20ish first grade games. Also, I don’t think Luke Burgess was close to an international call up when in Super League so I am not sure why a handful of games in the NRL would get him a spot. Carvell would be a better bet for me as his go forward game is much better

Finally, while I am very pleased that Lomax is in the squad and the half back pair should be any two of Lomax, Widdop and Brough (best set of half backs England have had for a long time). I would go with Robinson on the bench due to his impact from dummy half and ability to cover the in halves

Carvell has been immense when I've seen him this season.

Regarding Lomax, his inclusion could be a good shout. I would perhaps conceed there's better out and out 7s as (for a start) he doesn't have a kicking game, so whoever partners him would need to, but he's a very rumbustuous and fearless player and doesn't mind doing the work in close proximity of the defending forwards, he's also strong enough to get by in those situations. When your up against the best in the world, your not going to have much freedom, so these talents could be a real asset.

I picked Lomax over Robinson as he can also play in the outside backs where he started when he broke into the Saints team. I don't think we need an interchange hooker as Roby can play 80 minutes, if he can do that at international level is something different all together. Reason why I picked Burgess is because he is young, Carvell is in his 30's and isn't the future of our English game. The 1 - 7 is still young, (apart from Brough and Ellis) So the majority of it will still be playing and getting better for the 2013 world cup. When Watkins is ready for International level i'd put him at centre and put Ellis back in the pack where he belongs, but I've put him at centre for now because I don't think there is anyone else good enough in attack and defence to do a job at international level.

I don't think we have much chance at the 4N, but I think we will come 2013.

How many first grade games had Gareth Widdop played before his England debut?

I can't work out if you are posting this in support of my argument or against it

While Widdop is a good player and a pretty good bet for the 4 Nations this year after a second (and full) year in the NRL, it is fair to say he was probably thrown into the international game too early last year

Another cracking week for Gareth Ellis as he continues crushing 'em, mashing 'em and ripping it up big-style in the NRL.

[uHit-Ups[/u: =#FF0000Ellis 7, Farah 9, Fulton 11, Galloway 13, Gibbs 14, Heighington 15.
[uAll Run Meters[/u: =#FF0000Ellis 46, Fulton 58, Farah 80, Galloway 103, Heighington 108, Gibbs 136.
[uTackles[/u: =#FF0000Ellis 28, Gibbs 22, Heighington 25, Galloway 26, Farah 34, Fulton 45.
[uMissed Tackles[/u: =#FF0000Ellis 5, Heighington 2, Fulton 2, Galloway 1, Gibbs 0, Farah 0.
[uIneffective Tackles[/u: =#FF0000Ellis 1, Heighington 1, Galloway 1, Farah 1, Gibbs 0, Fulton 0.
[uOffloads[/u: =#FF0000Ellis 0, Heighington 1, Fulton 1.
[uTackle Breaks[/u: =#FF0000Ellis 0, Farah 1, Galloway 2, Heighington 2, Galloway 3.

Also good to witness his [i'game-breaking'[/i offloads again.

The 6th best Tigers forward this week according to those stats.

Sure he could handle Inglis



He's only missed 11 tackles and made 4 ineffective tackles, and that's just in his last two NRL appearances.



Sure they could



Meanwhile, in the real world.....

Judging on Inglis' souths form this year anyone could handle him he looks disinterested. Ellis' defence is much better than any England centre, he could handle him.

Right in the England team lets compare the forwards:

Morley v Scott
Roby v Smith
Graham v Shillington
Burgess v Thaiday
Westwood v Lewis
O Loughlin v Gallen

IMO we are quite evenly matched in this area. The only 2 of there players who comfortably beat ours are Gallen and Smith.

Then our backs:
1. Tomkins: Exceptional talent, he is a threat on the end of flowing moves and given space there is no better.
2. Briscoe: A good winger who could easily do a job in the NRL, good all round player.
3. Jack Reed: Proven in the NRL, mentions of Origin about this lad, getting him in an england shirt is vital.
4. Gareth Ellis: Wests player of the year 09 10, you calling him a poor makes me question your sanity and wether you are drunk.
5. McGilvary: Probably our weak link but still comfortable under the high ball and great at making metres from dummy half.
6. Widdop: Arguably been the best stand off in the NRL this year and has helped a melbourne storm team losing some quality players to the top of the ladder.
7. Brough: Decent player, most importantly has a exceptional kicking game which is what we need, he is also a good organiser.

Your just pessimistic.

Jack Reed will not be playing for England

he's not even that good....


from what i've seen on NRL FULLTIME his defence,especially in his own 20 is questionable,his tries are'nt nothing our guys don't already do...and that try he scored from the halfway line was more down to crap tackling than excellent play...

just cos he playing in the NRL does'nt mean he's a automatic pick for england.........christ he was laying brick last year...

Ellis is a predominantly left sided defender so would line up on the opposite side to Inglis but would be too good in defence for SKD in the games against NZ.
Joel Tomkins is a right sided player so he would be the one to face Inglis if we were to pick him as a centre.

A good post. It's a crying shame more people don't look at the statistics before mentioning Gareth Ellis 'crushing' the opposition.