11 teams makes magic weekend problematic. If they are going to promote a team then the sooner the better they announce it so that the club can recruit. As London found out it’s difficult to go up and survive when all the other clubs have recruited.

Nobody relegated but, Toronto have withdrawn this season, failing to fulfil their fixtures, failed to pay their players and allowed a number of their squad to move on.
There looks to be no way back for them and IF they are gone, who should fill their spot ?

I know how much you like answering questions so fill yer boots

You keep peddling that one but oddly enough the Canadian Shambles gained their SL spot that way.

I suppose Fev could have won that game, and up would have gone a club with no money relying on Leeds dual Reg players.....

Your just plain wrong here........... McManus is rightly calling for any prospective club to be checked out for their ability to sustain an SL place on a long term basis.

If both leagues were fully pro or all semi pro you may have a point. But you really don't have one here......

You never know, next season is the last year of the SKY deal. The new deal may switch to licensing - after all this is what McManus is already calling for by asking the RFL to select a new Superleague club on a set of "Criteria"?

Finances, Marketing, Ground, Player development .......... Don't think "avoid bottom place" will be a criteria??

They'd look reet daft sitting round a table to find the best club outside Superleague, stick them in Superleague and then wave them bye only months later if they came bottom. You make a really really good point here.

Clubs will be very careful about being set up just to be fall guys for another rival club at the end of next season pinching their place.......Without having to meet any criteria other than winning the Championship. Again a great point......

Doubtful.

They couldn't even sell out vs Leeds in the middle 8s; the only team likely to be a bigger draw is Cas.

What about lying to SL about getting a new stadium built, in order to get a licence? What are your thoughts on that?

who lied have a link to that slanderous remark

Wren you finished bottom with 6 points and weren't relegated. This high minded indignation is a touch misplaced.

That seems fair to me.

BUT it will be Bradford.

He/she/it has no such links and is merely trolling.

It was Castleford who were promising a "[imove to a new facility[/i" in 2013.

The Wakefield application for a licence was looked at and it was said [i"The stadium position is uncertain"[/i, Wakefield didn't lie at all, and they only scraped in but they didn't collapse like a wolfpack of cards. The latter aren't telling the truth about no money that's for sure, nor are their apologists on here, see my link on Argyle in talks to buy into Melbourne Storm.

I hereby annoint you"Trollfinder General" happy to help anytime

You really are a prize one.

Well Wakey played the system, so it was right to scrub the so called "Super 8's" as the system was badly flawed

It's a nonsense not to choose a team based on whether they have the set up and finances to compete. Imagine after this TWP collapse early in the season if Featherstone did the same. It's OK Wrenners trying to be "fair" but this is an important decision being made for the best interests of Superleague and the game.

Even if we did go for "fair" it's impossible to choose anyway between London and Fev.

Another irony is how so many people seems to totally discount Newcastle yet they may see themselves as "expansionists"



They slavered over Toronto Wolfpack and their phoney team, whilst when it comes to expanding properly to the North East, that's totally dismissed with no proper reasons given.

Gateshead...

What is upsetting you, the tag he has labelled your mate with, or the fact he is right and you cannot provide a reasoned response to his post.

The super 8s was flawed from the beginning playing each other only once gave some home advantage but it did prove to have an exciting end, having finished at the bottom only gave us time to prepare for the coming 8s where sides in the championship was still battling to get in the top 4, when it came to final game it put us who was last with the second best team in the championship due to the rules,
the difference is massive teams coming up should be given a years grace to get up to speed if that meant the second from bottom going down then so be it, they did it with catalan, the only flaw is the team going down ends up having to rebuild again.

I was all for promotion and relegation but the way things are going is proving to me a closed league is better way to go

which 'mate'...

there is no point in relying to Donnyman with anything meaningful, you can see crom the myriad of threads he starts about the same thing that he has a closed mind.

Thank you for your reply.

I'm sure you didn't mean "closed league" probably "Controlled league" would be a better phrase? The selection of a twelfth club by "criteria" may well repeat in a years time when all 10 or 12 clubs are "selected" for the new SKY deal. It will be fascinating...

I dont discount Newcastle at all but, they are nowhere near ready for SL.
What is their highest league placing so far ?

It's quite possible that their time will come, just as (hopefully) York will progress in their new stadium.

As for the facilities / financial stability criteria, haven't Toronto just blown a huge hole in this type of assessment.
As I mentioned in a previous post, once you take away on field success, setting criteria generally becomes a little bit grubby and the criteria for advancement is usually set, based on any favoured club(s) attributes.
Promotion and relegation and set minimum criteria if neccessary is the right way to move forward.

Also, if we return to franchising/ licensing, how do you allow new clubs in or, are we pulling up the drawbridge (again).

The 'controlled league' worked well the last time.Permitted clubs into it who went into financial difficulties,ie,Bradford,shortly after handing Whitehead a 5 yrs contract - not even Toronto have matched that.Clubs with poor quality stadia AND low attendances.

Wigan may not have a stadium in a matter of weeks.

Clubs dependent on monies from the broadcast deal...and a failure to improve the standards of the national side.

Super League really is Super.

Quote ="Ornery Optimist"The 'controlled league' worked well the last time.Permitted clubs into it who went into financial difficulties,ie,Bradford,shortly after handing Whitehead a 5 yrs contract - not even Toronto have matched that.Clubs with poor quality stadia AND low attendances. Wigan may not have a stadium in a matter of weeks. Clubs dependent on monies from the broadcast deal...and a failure to improve the standards of the national side. Super League really is Super.'" Think you find Toronto was going about signing players while they was going bust https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/to ... m-watkins/ Anyway what's this about Wigan and not having a stadium within weeks

Quote ="Ornery Optimist"The 'controlled league' worked well the last time.Permitted clubs into it who went into financial difficulties,ie,Bradford,shortly after handing Whitehead a 5 yrs contract - not even Toronto have matched that.Clubs with poor quality stadia AND low attendances. Wigan may not have a stadium in a matter of weeks. Clubs dependent on monies from the broadcast deal...and a failure to improve the standards of the national side. Super League really is Super.'" Think you find Toronto was going about signing players while they was going bust https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/to ... m-watkins/ Anyway what's this about Wigan and not having a stadium within weeks

Absolute worst case scenario of new owners for the stadium wanting to increase rent & kicking the team out, similar to Coventry City at the Ricoh.

Annual promotion/relegation is a nonsense in the modern game. There simply isn't enough time or resources, in any aspiring club, to get themselves upto standard for SL.

Any new SL club, whether an expansionist club, like Toronto, or a traditional club, like Leigh or Featherstone, needs a minimum 3 years to get themselves competitive - Its why licensing, where an applying club can be fully assessed for what they will bring to the league, is essential.

Look at Toronto as an example. Last year, they were far above anyone else in the championship and, whether a false front or not, had resources to improve their squad. Yet, admittedly after a short period, they looked nailed on for relegation when lockdown came.

Clubs need time to establish themselves, otherwise we just have a small number of sides yo-yoing between divisions, which does nothing to stabilise those clubs for the long term.

Amazing how most other pro sports manage it...?

Do you mean like county cricket, NFL, the NRL, etc?

How many fully professional clubs do we have by the way, all playing off the same resource base?

County Cri ket does, the NRL and NFL oprate id a different market, you are just picking a fight, waste of time even continuing this 'conversation'...