Maybe that person could convince the RFL to let him have a go at marketing the lower tiers , and give him a decent budget to do it

He's in America Now......Don't know why they let him leave. He was not only a good RL player, but also very well educated (Oxbridge)and 100% commited!

So it makes good business sence then to have a business loosing 1.5m a year hardly any fans to go watch them no income what so ever and prospects of winning something zero because you want rugby league to be seen in all it's glory yea looks really good to me doesn't it rugby league in London is not working and has done nothing to raise the profile of the game just because it's in the capatal isn't going to make a difference

Quins really need to rebuild, but not in Superleague. The RFL should have laid a better foundation and generated 2 London teams in the championship, this would provide a better progression. Also there would be a meaningful derby match instead of a team in geographic isolation.
I can see the gripe with DH and IL and the RFL, DH sounds loyal and dedicated, but his complaint is justified in putting all the money into the club as a minority shareholder, despite the RFL back pedalling on the IL issue which had a deadline of 2009. The RFL don,t help out either in expanding the game (financially) in the area and leaving to the Quins to be the "master of all" at the the costs of DH.
On the Quins negative side, the club does not have the fanbase even after all these years in whichever disquise you prefer, there away support is non existent. Also I can,t see them prospering under the umbrella of Harleqins Rugby Union Club without interference from the Union Code.
If nothing is done.................then we will have another 26 years of Deja Vu.

Is this development programme solely responsible for Harlequins RL’s current financial crisis?

I’m not having a go at your club here, but I can’t get my head around the scale which this development must take to rack up such debts year on year. Most clubs run community programmes, but it is not, or shouldn't be, allowed to become detrimental to the club itself. If this were to be the case then the club would simply cut back on it. Are Harlequins not allowed to do this?

It may be detrimental to the Quins bringing through local youngsters, but that must be a better option than ending up going to the wall?

I truly hope Quins come out of the other side of this and are healthier for it. Quins fans and other clubs fans alike can see that changes need to be made. I also think if the figures are correct regarding growth of the game in the capital and the majority of this being down to Quins then this is wrong and needs looking at. I fully believe the RFL will use the failure of Quins, should it happen, to cut the payments to clubs greatly and use it as a fairly hefty bargaining tool with the RFL. Maybe fans should think about this before wishing the death of a rugby league club. I also throw Haven into that statement as rugby league will be a worse place should either or both fail and go under.

As Gutterfax has touched on the fact not all clubs are whiter than white. I have seen goldfish with better memories and recollection of facts than some posters on here. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Don't hold your breath though, brace yourself for a stone fight.

Russel Crow

Facts people, facts.

London / Quins have NEVER been bailed out financially by the RFL or Superleague.
(When we reformed in 2005 there was no money received, all that happened was the debt to David Hughes was written off leaving Mr Hughes out of pocket).

The RFL have failed to enforce the condition that Ian Lenegan sell his shareholding in Quins within 2 years of taking over Wigan, but they have enforced the condition that forbids Mr Lenegan from investing any money in Quins (not that Mr Lenegan is complaining about this I suspect).

David Hughes is not asking for a handout, he is asking that the situation regarding Ian Lenegan owning 65% of the club be resolved, and that the RFL start to address their responsibilities regarding development of the game.

can i just say quins is just a stop gap club for people to watch who now live in london like someone who i know he goes to watch quins but used to support hkr till he moved to london he said to me the only reason why he goes to quins is because he could not go to watch hull kr every week and thats why its not working

Surely if there were more like him then that would be the exact reason it could work.

Fans through the gate are fans through the gate and more importantly money in the club coffers. It doesn't necessarily matter who wants to watch rugby league as long as they are.

but its real fans who give a rats about the club they need and unfortinatly they dont have that its football in london and allways will be thats just the way it is

Yes I see that but rugby league fans through the gate are better than nothing at all if you get my point.

Beggars can't be choosers at this moment in time. That is meant strictly in fans through the gate sense before somebody gets worked up.

Ok.

Again like Crusaders in Wrexham, skint club gets bought by skint club then suddenly has lot's of money to through about on players?

So the RFL left Hughes out of pocket but he still sticks around and pumps money into Quins RL? I highly doubt that!

IL is owed 2million in a loan he gave to the club as a director or whatever he is still owed that (see previous owners of Portsmouth FC for proof it DOES have to be paid back). Pretty clear the RFL will give Lennegan that money so then his shares can just be given to the next person who fancies a go at running the side!

I don't deny the fella has more than likley put a hell of a lot of money in just for his love of the club / RL in the south! It was more on the point that if the RFL effectively screwed him over once then i'd be very suprised if he'd then come back to throw more money into teh cause with NO chance of any returns (if as said above last time the RFL just wrote off any Bronco's debt).

David Hughes is clearly a London RL legend and fair play to him but no-one can afford to put in millions year in year out majority shareholder or not, a few years yes but when crowds still drop no chance.

Maybe the fans moaning and expecting RFL bail outs should help get people into the ground? As the only way to secure your clubs future is bums in seats and cash in club shop etc etc.

But the Harlequins are saying that the problem is the cost of being responsible for the development of the game throughout the South of England that is the cause of their losses, and not the low crowd turn out.

This is what I can’t get my head round.

They say that, if the RFL take this on themselves, then all will be well again

Heh? No-one bought anyone. David Hughes essentially wrote off an awful lot of money.


You doubt that, based on what?


Nobody forced Ian Lenegan to buy into Quins RL. Nobody forced him to buy Wigan without selling his Quins shareholding. If IL's shareholding in Quins isn't worth much now he can't really look for someone else to blame. As to whether he 'loaned' or 'invested' money I wasn't party to the commercial details of any agreement so I can't offer an opinion one way or another.

Sorry, call me cynical, but I suspect this call for "assistance" re the development of the game is a smokescreen to try and avoid a public outcry from other struggling clubs, who see the RFL's willingness to assist so called expansion clubs at the detriment of traditional heartlands clubs as unfair.

The losses Quins are suffering cannot be attributed to the cost of the development of the game in the South, for the simple reason that no sane business man (which I believe David Hughes is), is going to pump GBP 1.5m a year into a club to cover such costs - he would have said to the RFL years ago, sorry but this is not our responsibility - you need to bear some of the burden.

Also not sure what major difference IL not having 65% of the shares has to do with it either. If these are relinquished for nothing by IL at the request of the RFL, what difference will that make to David Hughes? He will still be pumping in the same amount of money just owning 100% of the shares - therefore Quins are no better off and neither is David Hughes (or am I missing something).

It wouldn't be the first time the RFL have bailed out a club ?

Those with short memories only need go back to the Hull/ Gateshead and the Huddersfield/Sheffield debacles.

That actually is a very good point. It is feasible that the RFL, who can't even enforce their own rules on ownership, would pay off Lenagan to the tune of £2m for his shares, shares that he is not even allowed to own past the 2009 season. It is unclear whether the RFL have told him to dump the shares or given him £2m so that Quins actually look for fresh investment. Either way Quins needed to be shot of Lenagan, with IL being the 65% majority shareholder and by RFL regulations not being able to put funds into the club the club was on the long road (or short road) to ruin.

It is not a debt, as Quins don't have an overdraft or bank loan and are completely underwritten by the minority shareholder David Hughes. Quins will not pay IL for money he put in of his own free-will, in the exact same way that DH does to cover operational costs that come about because we do too much off the field, and not enough bums on seats. IL wants money back for the money he put in, no-one put a gun to his head when he put that money in, and he certainly did us no favours by going to Wigan.

The RFL should have got this sorted out last year, or even before Lenagan bought Wigan. Have the toothless RFL bought his shares, or told him to sell them now, we are expecting an announcement by the middle of this week. As a rugby league fan I hope the shares have not been bought by the RFL, as a Quins fan I hope the shares are available and the noises coming from a few sources is that positive news on the ownership front is on the way.

I just hope the RFL has told Lenagan that you put your money in to Quins of your own free-will, unless you want to be removed from Wigan, you have no claims on the shares in Harlequins Rugby League.

No-one will come on board when someone else owns 65% of the club and is asking for £2m for those shares in a loss-making club. Lenagan put the money in of his own free-will, with Lenagan gone Quins can look (or have gained) a new investor in the club.

No one will invest in my club wakey whilst Ted Richardson is on board and don't want to buy him out, does this mean the RFL will buy Ted out so we can attract a new Chairman who is willing to invest?

Hello Cynical

Possibly, though I don't think David Hughes is asking for direct financial support for the club, and to be honest we get the public outcry anyway, even though we have never been bailed out in the past.

No you're right, it's not just development that's responsible for our losses but it's part of the picture. As you say David Hughes is a business man, and as such he's obviously looking at our expenditure and seen the money we're spending on development outside of our immediate locality. I think he's entitled to ask why that's coming from Quins and not the RFL.

In terms of absolute expenditure by David Hughes you're correct that it will make no difference at all. But even if someone else was wanting to invest in Quins (and I'm not naïve enough to think that people are queueing up to do that) the fact is they can't until Ian Lenegan is out of the picture.

I hope not. And I hope the RFL don't buy out Lenegan. I don't see why these people should be bailed out for decisions they made of their own free will.
But the fact is when Ian Lenegan bought Wigan he was given two years to relinquish his shareholding in Quins as one of the conditions. That two years was up last December.

On the IL front, I agree with what someone said before, IL should be forced to relinquish his shares in Quins for nothing or be prevented from continuing as Chairman of Wigan.