Despite being a self proclaimed flat-capper, I would be very sad if there was no longer a professional RL club in London. After 30 years they are part of the establishment. However, as an outpost they need lots of help and guidance from the RFL. Unfortunately the game is run by people who think they are visionary yet most can see they are blinkered and clueless. If the right direction had been given in the past, things mught have been different, now I fear the worst.

If the club does survive and is forced to relocate, what are the options? The roots of the game are working class and thats what should be targetted. To me they should pick one of the poorer areas, one without any raa-raa team and go b@lls out to build a community club. An alien concept to mssrs Lewis and co, but its the only way they will make a go of it. Its the approach the AFL are trying in Western Sydney and to me its the only way. So what about prospective locations, the East End perhaps?

if you take out quins and salford from SL, how much higher would the crowd average be?

people judge RL as a sport based on this.

also the lack of away fans means clubs lose income as well.

if you cant average at least 5000 then you shouldnt be in SL. or at least have growing crowds

salford have a chance of sorting their crowds out with a new ground but i cant see anything changing at quins

nothing at all to do with quins.
thread is titled IF quins fail.

personally hope they dont

No, they'd definately need some other reasons.

And would you like to explain how the opinions of a few thousand people 200 miles away from London is preventing people from going watching Quins ?

All it would take is a few hundred northerners assembled in the rhubard triangle, which is known to focus energy in the same way as a pyramid, only more northern, holding crystals made from coal and mystic charms made from steel and fish heads all singing Kumbaya lead by Uri Geller while feasting on pattie and chips to create the right aura for Quins to succeed.

And you won't even do that to support an ailing RL club. Shame on you!

While I agree crowds need to be much higher, your point doesn't exactly ring true in respect that you could put leigh and featherstone in SL now instead and they'd average about 6-7k each. Would we be respected more across the country? I dont think so.
Crusaders are probably going to average about 6k this year but the gathering interest in the game in a new area is worth so much more. I bet welsh viewing figures are up tremendously with all the publicity the Crusaders have had and in general Super League.
As an example Dally, if you go on the Redpassion football forums there's people discussing SL in general and watching games that never would have done before.

Hate to point this out but according to the AA it is 83 miles from London to Ipswich and only 55 from london to MK...

neither is London from a TV or newspaper editors' point of view, if as seems apparent QRL wont work in the lap of the Unionites then yet another flit across the metropolis is the only option other than for it to fold which would be manna from the gods for the RU writers...

Meanwhile, as the latter is only 15m from home, I would happily promote MK as another franchise; 0.3m people and a big hinterland; good train links and just off the M1 for traveling fans. Further round ball folk said they'd never make the Dons thing work, but it continues to improve.

Significantly lower than the Guinness Prem

but quins and salford arent generating much extra growth

im an expansionist but these clubs atm arent growing

if they arent improving then their SL spots should be questioned

i just dont think quins will last long financially with their current crowds

if salford dont get a new ground id much prefer widnes in their place

quins and salfords averages considerably reduce the sl average

take the nrl as an example, the worst club gets 11,500, the average is just under 18,000

in SL the worst club gets 2750, the overall average is over 9000

im guessing ex quins and salford SL would be averaging over 10,000?

i get embarrased looking at their crowds, especially compared to other sl clubs

widnes would get imo 7000 - 8000 fairly easily in SL

if quins fail i hop toulouse take their place leaving widnes to come in next time under franchising

I wasn't really thinking about distance, I was thinking more of number of people that a club could target. It's within the reaches of North London and the whole of East Anglia.

By far the best after game entertainment and a good weekend end away overall. Mind you last year we (Warrington) were very poor but I wasn't one of those booing

I agree wholeheartedly in that respect, I was just saying the average attendance figure isn't everything and certainly isn't exactly what Sky look at imo.
Salford will go next time, no doubt about it for Widnes.
My dad had an idea on how to save salford, long winded and this isnt the place but it was brilliant. They'd never do it anyway.
Quins.. I don't know. Yes, the crowds are shocking, bloody terrible, the teams's garbage but.. in my opinion if we outlay the franchise criteria from last time, they still get a place, comfortably.
For me they've got to move, not get relegated but move but NEVER would I kick them out for Toulouse, it would be suicide. I'm all for a second French SL club but Toulouse just aren't ready.

I have made this point before but you cannot take NRL crowds and hold them up as a comparison to SL crowds. It's unfair. The RL areas of both Aus and UK are roughly the same in terms of population, however the NRL does not have a monster like the Premier League to content with. Wigan, Liverpool, Everton, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Hull City, Bolton, Blackburn. All these football clubs are in the premiership and share geography with RL. Football in this country is THE sport, regardless of whatever else is going on, Ashes, Wimbledon, Union, it always comes back to football.

You say Widnes would get 7000-8000 in SL? How did you come to those figures? It seems you've just plucked them out of the air. And unless they hit the ground running and pushed into the play-off spots they'd be in the same spot as Salford and not drawing huge crowds. Just because a team is in the heart-land it doesn't mean it will succeed. Look at Leigh, look at Widnes. Both teams pushed beyond their means to get to SL and now Leigh are in the 3rd tier of the sport and Widnes pretty much went out of business which is what cost them a franchise last time.

What Quins needs is a marketing department that actually markets the club. I doubt many people outside the sport or in London actually know there's more than one Quins side in existence. If no-one knows about the team or the sport how can you get anyone to come watch? Quins need to look at what Bradford did at the start of SL. Really re-invent themselves and push on out into the community and they could very likely be successful in this if done properly. Give out free tickets to school kids in the area, really push it as a family day out. It's undeniable that this approach helped the Bulls in the early SL years improve their fan base. So I don't see why it can't work for Quins.

loads of talk about how widnes are going to be huge is SL nothing really backs it up. they were in SL not long since and did not do very well. got relegated, they did not get huge crowds last time , so what has changed. ok they have a new chairman who i recall offered to underwrite the club in last franchise bid but only to the tune of £500,000 which compared to the £3m plus it cost hull kr to be competitive seems insufficient.

maybe there is more to it but i am not convinced they are in any better position than halifax or barrow

At risk of being seen to defend Leigh it has to be said that although they would have been in the 3rd tier if not for Gateshead's liquidation they aren't in the third tier and are currently top of the second tier.

Whilst your point on the need for marketing of Quins is obvious there is also the big problem of whether they currently have the money to perform such a strategy. Many people do not believe that they do. That is at the crux of the debate over whether they will continue to exist or whether they can continue to be maintained at SL level at the expense of another club (whoever that may be). If they do not have the financial clout necessary to put themselves out there as you and many others (including some of their own supporters) suggest then how can they grow their business and justify a SL spot being given to them, or more worryingly for Quins how can they continue to exist.

widnes have at least already proved they could average them figures, even with a side that was relegated

In Leighs mission impossible season - 2 down - at a dated HP, with ridiculous restrictions imposed by Wigan MBC on ticketing and ground segregation, they still drew more than 2 other clubs in SL that year.
With a new stadium and a 3 year period to build Leigh would hit 7000+ with a competitive team missing the play offs.

And if you keep removing the bottom two attended clubs then I'm sure that by the time you get to a four team league, the average attendances will be acceptable to people?

Hudds only got 5000+ for a local derby on Fri- thats for a team in form.

Wasnt it nearer 6k? and nearly double what they would have got a few years ago? Fine by me.

Quins should follow the hudds model plenty of FREE seats for the community kids etc then get the local press in on the act. Also have more of the 2 stop teams playing the same day though it went well Saturday.