In terms of success I'd say they have been. In the last 5 years Hull have won a CC, got to another CC final and got to a GF. The only team who can get close to that is Wire with 2 CC wins depending on what weight you put on winning the extra CC final but not getting to a GF.

That hasn't been the choice that has faced us though. Bringing through youth takes time and we had to build a SL team pretty much from scratch. If we could have magicked the spine of from a standing start you think we'd choose not to? Aussies are not just a quick fix - they are the [ionly[/i quick fix. Now we need to start (or rather complete the process of) producing a decent player or two a year to get us up to SL standards (the standards that give us now chance against Australia, sadly).

Oh I agree, I see why people do it don't get me wrong, it happens in every sport in England. When was the last time Man United brought through an England international from their academy? Now compare it to the last time Barcelona brought a Spanish international through theirs. It's one of the reasons why we aren't the best at football and rugby (league or union)

Like i said Maths obviously isn't your strong point, the last 5 winners of thew Challenge cup have been

2006 - Saints
2007 - Saints
2008 - Saints
2009 - Warrington
2010 - Warrington

As you will know we have a fair few players who come through our academy at Hull and its probably the reason why we are pants. I bet you , yourself would rather we went to the NRL and got a half back rather then try our arm at one of our academy scrum halfs.

I suppose you have a problem with us signing the likes of Fitzgibbon and O Meley, despite the fact that there professionalism and guidance have undoubtley helped our younger players just get better and better. Houghton would be nowhere near the player he is today if he hadn't have played under Berrigan.

Just selecting English players for the sake of it will not make us have a stronger English team especially when they are average at best. To be the best we need to learn from the best so if any NRL star is willing to come over here and it will improve our competition as well as the intensity in every game that it is for the better. Because what English players we have out there will benefit hugely from it.

The problem on the international front is not jst the fact of the lack of talent, but the poor coaching many academy clubs get and to an extent some first teams get. We play too many games and too many games that don't have enough intensity in them. I reckon every top 8 NRL side would beat England at the moment, thats not down to the lack of English talent its down to the fact they play in a better competition and recieve far better coaching. Not only that they have less games and bye weeks which means they rest players and also gives players longer pre seasons to improve the game.

I fear for our youngsters we have at the moment, people like Tomkins, Briscoe and even Graham play in seasons that not only contain 27 regular rounds and a play off series but the challenge cup as well. They then go off to play with England for 6 weeks and after there break they end up missing alot of the teams pre season, a time which should be used to improve players.

The simple answer is not just to fill every squad with home grown players because that will damage our competition more rather then improve it. I don't buy the whole if England win it will boost our games coverage and audience, considering the whole tournament isn't exactley common knowledge to every person walking down the street.

2010 is the year, 5 years a go it was 2005.

That's not my point at all. I see the point of having quality players around for English players to learn from, my problem with Hull KR and teams like Bradford is bringing in overseas players for the sake of it who are average. Ben Fisher and Rhys Lovegrove are very average players, are you telling me Scott Wheeldon learns anything from Lovegrove? Vella, Mason, Newton and Ben Galea are players I have no problem with as they add something to the competition rather than taking a place of an Englishman who is probably just as good.

Your challenge cup win was 6 seasons and more than 5 years ago.

2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010. Since we came up in 2007 our average league placing has been higher than your's. (4, 11, 12, 6 vs 11, 7, 4, 7).

I think you need to go away and rethink when you won the CC.
Also in that time period you have been scraping the bottom of the barrel more than once.
Like I said you obviously cant look at either us our yourselves constructively.

We've had 2 of our worst years for a long while in those years though. Fair enough if you feel that constitutes success, I'd personally much rather attend GF and CC finals. I didn't say we was within the last 5 winners of the CC, I said in the last 5 years we have attended 1 GF and 2 CC finals which is correct. The year is 2010, 5 years a go the year was 2005 and in the year 2005 we won the CC... though this discussion is highly pedantic so for arguments sake, over the last 6 years we have been one of the most succesful clubs.. better?

Scott Wheeldon is pants though, but because of the rules that are being enforced means he is still being kept in the competition because he is English. He'll never wear the international jersey so does he improve our game ? Does he lift it to the next level ? I don't think Lovegrove does either to be fair but out of the two I'd rather have Lovegrove in my team.

This is the problem we have too many people think throwing English youngsters in will solve the problem when infact it will make us worse.

Like I said it depends how you measure success. Personally I'd rather have got to 3 finals in the last 6 seasons (5 years

) rather than just be a team who finished, on average, higher.

You have attend 1 CC in the last 5 years 3 people have now told you this are you really that thick?
In the last 5 years what have you won?
Same as us and yet going on the last 4 years we have out placed you on average.
Now look at Hudds and Warrington.
You sir are talking bollacks you are clearly just to thick to realise it.

Well something needs to change because people bringing in NRL rejects will NOT help.

But within the last 5 years you haven't been to Cup Finals or Grand Finals. Go back 5 years from today and you've reached a cup final and a grand final. Honourable achievments but you've been slaughtered in both of those games and certainly haven't kicked on

You claimed to be in the top 4 not 'we have been one of the most succesful clubs'.
HTH

The trouble is these NRL rejects are far better then any player we can produce.

The better that competion the better the players will be its simple.

5 years today 31st of October 2005? Jesus christ, I must have being dreaming on 14th October 2006.

They aren't though are they? I can name quite a few props better than Lovegrove and quite a few hookers better than Fisher.

Which would purely be in your opinion.

However anyone can name a player that is better then somebody, try something harder like naming one from every club then you may have an arguement.

Well only two props in the entire league made more metres than Rhys Lovegrove throughout the season so it'll be a pretty short list

Because that's the only thing that constitutes a good prop? It's like me saying no prop in the entire league made more missed tackles than Rhys Lovegrove throughout the season so it'll be a pretty long lost

.

Our expectations? Do Belgians beat themselves up over not producing as many footballers as Brazil?



In the lower divisions / SL reserve teams?

Not really because then i'd just say to you how many props made more tackles than Rhys Lovegrove and then that would be a very short list

Yes that is a 'cup final'.
Not the 'cup finals' you keep banging on about.
I imagine that was Phils point.
May I suggest you give the keyboard back to your carer as you are just doing more and more of this