, and when the ' messiah '

Mr Millward returned , this year it is down to around 1,700

So what you’re saying is that Leigh’s attendances range from about 1700 to about 2400 and chasing the dream of promotion had sod all positive effect on Leigh’s attendances, and any assertion that a return to P+R would again, as it did previously have sod all positive effect on Leigh’s attendances, and any assertion to the opposite would be complete bunkum

Similarly any assertion that Leigh’s attendances are negatively affected by franchising and the lack of P+R is also complete nonsense.

Thank god you finally accept this.

I didnt suggest there ever was

It is better for those that recieve money for it , it doesn't help those that dont 1 Iota

I'll say it again , the only Championship RL that should be televised ' Live ' is the NRC final and the 2 GF s , playing midweek costs Championship Clubs vital revenue , revenue that being on TV does not replace

, Yes now I read it back I see the ' flaw ' , what I really meant was that the lack of ' Intensity ' , ' Atmosphere ' , ' Edge ' , whatever you want to call it doesn't excite me like it used to do , I restarted watching live RL around 13 years ago , when yearly promotion was still available and SL relatively new , it now ' feels ' different

I suppose its like you anticipating a match against W1g4n compared to one against London , would you watch 27 matches against London with the relative lack of atmosphere and intensity ?

Yes I remember TC being at the club , just over 2 months he lasted

He got that bit right , but that was reffering to playing away at other clubs , a bit like Leeds playing at London and Salford

There will always be fluctuations , a bit like W1g4ns rising when involved in a relegation battle , as did ours in 2009

The introduction of Franchising coincided with Leigh moving to the LSV , so that would have had an impact upon the averages , and yes the averages arent drastically different , but what has changed is the difference in the ' big ' games , the play off matches , league matches at home and away at Widnes/Oldham , the games that would bring in the ' casual ' fan

So you have got fewer casual fans and more regular fans, this is a good thing It is massively more difficult to attract regular fans than it is for a one off game.

Also how do you explain the relative stability of Halifax’s attendances? Is that down to the improvements at the Shay?

Like Fax' and Leigh improving facilities and focussing on the league they were in rather than chasing promotion for their 'season in the sun' ,means they have a bigger, more stable, fan base under franchising than they did under P+R?

No , this years will be the lowest for well over a decade

The average attendance this season for Leigh was 1772, a massive 95 less than 2007 the last year of he GF winner being promoted, so small an amount as to be insignificant and clearly down to many possible factors. and considering, again, that all other season averages were higher, some vastly, we can safely conclude that there is no link between the removal of P+R and a drop in attendances at Leigh.

Surprises me that. The NRC was seen as a bit of a waste of time back then. Were league attendances any higher?

So the rights were given away for FREE? Even if that's true, I do find it hard to believe. Is there any factual information on this rather than "hearsay" and "in the know" comments?

The RFL must hand out some form of payments to Champ clubs because no way can anyway club survive from average crowds of under 2,000? Maybe "TV rights" are included in this?

TIA for any info, be good to know

Its true

While I agree the improved facilities are a good thing. Without casual fans you do not get regular fans, you need new people in, get them hooked and make them regular fans. Halifax is a rugby town and a team that play exciting games. I used to travel from York to every game,( I was not the only one) before I moved to far to go and watch, now I get up at 5-6am to listen to the radio on the internet. Sadly radio Leeds seems not to put the games on the internet now.
Improved facilities are no good if you have no one to enjoy them by the way. Ask Salford.

Not all that strange, and absolutely true. Anyone in marketing will tell you that "critical mass" is a big factor in all mass-spectator events. People want to be there when something big is happening and can't be a***ed if its not. Loads of people went to watch Olympic flames go past for the 'atmosphere'. ( It surely can't be because they'd spent a lifetime wanting to watch a person jog by, carrying a gold-painted stick ).

I'm sure it makes me a 'bad' fan, but I tend to be far more inclined to go when I think the ground will be full, even though it generally means I'll get a worse seat. Just human nature, like it or not.

FWIW, the 'ideal' solution would be a magic stadium that could change its size to match demand and thus always seem nearly full, but since Harry Potter isn't available, I'd look at all the other things you can do - for example, a lot of Australian stadia ( I first noticed this during the cricket ) have randomly coloured seats which definitely makes the ground appear fuller than it is. These little things can make a difference.

Yes, but it's fact of life. That's exactly what happens with crowds - I suppose it's called momentum or something. (See post above).

Atmosphere is better, the sense of occasion is better. All adding to a more improved experience.

Getting regular fans is the harder, and more rewarding option. It is much easier to bring in the casual fan than the regular ones. There is nothing top stop a club also bringing in casual fans which would add to the attendance. The aim is for casual fans to become regular fans, having more regular fans simply means its working. This is a good thing.

And Salford have increased their attendance by a fair bit since their move.

Quote ="Alfie Langer No2"So the rights were given away for FREE? Even if that's true, I do find it hard to believe. Is there any factual information on this rather than "hearsay" and "in the know" comments? The RFL must hand out some form of payments to Champ clubs because no way can anyway club survive from average crowds of under 2,000? Maybe "TV rights" are included in this? TIA for any info, be good to know '" Read from Page 23 onwards of the recent "Watkins Review", it explains how monies are distributed within the game. www.therfl.co.uk/~rflmedia/docs/ ... Review.pdf In fact, for anyone who hasn't read it all I suggest they do as it may open some people's eyes on certain issues within the game.

Quote ="Alfie Langer No2"So the rights were given away for FREE? Even if that's true, I do find it hard to believe. Is there any factual information on this rather than "hearsay" and "in the know" comments? The RFL must hand out some form of payments to Champ clubs because no way can anyway club survive from average crowds of under 2,000? Maybe "TV rights" are included in this? TIA for any info, be good to know '" Read from Page 23 onwards of the recent "Watkins Review", it explains how monies are distributed within the game. www.therfl.co.uk/~rflmedia/docs/ ... Review.pdf In fact, for anyone who hasn't read it all I suggest they do as it may open some people's eyes on certain issues within the game.

(But it seems compulsory to instead buy seats in your club colours, and then make a giant name out of them. Never understood that. Who would ever enter the empty ground and not know where they were? What's it for?

"Who would ever enter the empty ground and not know where they were?"


SALFORD !

What always makes me laugh is that these lower league club fans often spend a lot of there time and energy on here venting there anger. Whilst they would be more productive if they went to there clubs and tried to do something about it. I often see Leigh fans (mainly) and to some extent Halifax fans venting anger towards Super League. You never see many Fev Rovers fans doing that and look what they are achieving at there club.

Concentrate on getting your own club's run properly then you might be in a position to criticize your exclusion. P & R was killing Rugby League and destroying the lower leagues.

What a load of ivory tower ignorant rubbish. You've no idea have you?

What on earth do you expect fans of lower clubs to do exactly? If you were in their position you'd be doing the exact same damn thing so be thankful you were lucky enough to support a club with more stroke and stop judging.

Quote ="Derwent"Read from Page 23 onwards of the recent "Watkins Review", it explains how monies are distributed within the game. www.therfl.co.uk/~rflmedia/docs/ ... Review.pdf In fact, for anyone who hasn't read it all I suggest they do as it may open some people's eyes on certain issues within the game.'" Cheers I'll have a read tonight.

Quote ="Derwent"Read from Page 23 onwards of the recent "Watkins Review", it explains how monies are distributed within the game. www.therfl.co.uk/~rflmedia/docs/ ... Review.pdf In fact, for anyone who hasn't read it all I suggest they do as it may open some people's eyes on certain issues within the game.'" Cheers I'll have a read tonight.

That'll be mostly me then, well funnily enough after investing tens of thousands of pounds into ' my ' club and still the other directors not listening, I had to resign ( basically to save what little money I had left ) , I have since then tried to ' educate ' both my club and others in how to increase income specifically in the light of a Franchised upper tier, but to no avail, it is a toss up who is the most incompetant, the highly paid experts at Red Hall, or the club owners

However it is the RFL s resonsibility to provide the right sort of enviroment for all clubs to prosper, this they have miserably failed at , so until they do manage to do that, I'll continue to criticise them

As for the lack of Fev fans complaining, try totalrl.com, thats were they post , only 3/4 come on here, and they tend to stick to the Leigh and Fax boards