McNamara seems to have provoked a number of hissy fits from Wigan and Hull KR fans. I'm starting to warm to him.

The biggest missed opportunity missed for me is the opportunity to give some of the younger players a chance against top opposition and get used to being with the other England 1st Team players.
We have no 'big' internationals this year - there is no 4 Nations, just a series against Wales and France (as well as the exiles) - and this is a perfect opportunity to blood the younger players who will be knocking on the door for next year's world cup.

I don't mind Peacock and similar being in the squad as he will give a good influence over the camp and to the younger players, but I think that there should have been more of the younger players who will definitely be internationals in the future such as Patrick, Houghton and Ratchford.

I haven't seen any hissy fits from KR fans?
Myself a kr fan I wouldn't have expected any player to get in the first squad, I would have thought Welham would have made the knights team but I'm pleased that Hodgson, Watts and Taylor got in

IIRC Goulding played in the 2010 4N & was crap. He has improved markedly since then but is nothing more than a good quality SL 3/4 in a fantastically coached side. Ditto McIllorum who reminds me of Nicky Kiss, a good workmanlike hooker but not international standard.

I agree about some of the apparent inconsistencies - Clarkson, Gaskell, Wheeler IMO are way off the mark at the moment & I am not sure they will ever be good enough. Perhaps this will show it. There are others I would have had in but I am not losing sleep over it.

Goulding played on the wing in 2010 but he certainly isn't a winger. Now that he's playing in his natural position he's playing well. I'm not convinced that Goulding would be good at international level but you never know unless they get the chance. In order to get the chance you have to be playing well and to be fair he's done just that. Cudjoe has been very disappointing this year and isn't showing any real form. He's probably got more potential but you can never be sure about these things.

Having said that, it's not that bad if he's not in the England squad. I'd rather have him unappreciated and underrated and being one of Wigan's best players week in week out than playing more games and risking injury.

As for McIlorum though, it's his improvement that has had one of the biggest influences to Wigan's strong start to the season. Top teams need top hookers and top hookers can allow even a weakened pack to get on top through intelligent play. Wigan's improvement is not the cause of McIlorum's improvement. He's always had talent he's just taken a while to show it consistently. He's matured as a player and developed his game considerably.

Goulding being left out isn't a suprise to me as he's only just moved back in to the centre position after a few seasons playing on the wing. He's on fire at the minute and if he keeps that form up he'll be hard to ignore going forward. I'm not convinced Goulding is a player that physically suits international rugby though.

The one I don't get is McIlorum! He's a brute of a player and his alround game has come on ten fold. He is physical, an aggressive defender and just a general nasty git to play against. He is an ideal fit to play international matches and would work well with Roby. I'd have McIlorum bashing them up for 20 mins and then bring Roby from the bench shifting between 9 and 13 just doing what he does best and getting at defences with the ball!

As for Wilkin, JJB and Sinfield being in I can only hope it's due to a lack of available options with guys like Westwood being injured and us having our 2 best backrowers playing in the NRL.

Goulding on fire is not an expression I would use, nor recognise. He's not fast enough or big enough for international RL, a good club 3/4. But at the moment there is no-one, Atkins apart (who has failed previously), who I would be happy in there. Watkins & Hardaker look to have the potential but one is permanently injured & the other can't pass to one of the best wingers in the world. Otherwise it's those in the Goulding camp - Whelam & Yeaman, who are not quite good enough. I hope McB is not planning playing Ablett there - another great club player whose effort cannot be faulted, but not international class.

Regarding McIlorum, he's not a brute. He's niggly in your namesake's mould. He's not even the best hooker in Wigan, Tommy is brutal in defence with the flair going forward. Just because Phil Clarke creams himself over McIlorum every week, don't make it true.

To be fair he did say goulding may not be upto it physically, but that dont stop him beingvthe best centre in the comp at the moment, who at least deserves the chancd to show he is upto it dont you think?

As for micky i would love to know what these one or two things he needs to improve are, as half of the squad who been picked fall into this bracket and some of those have more than two really basic things they need to improve!

I disagree he is the form centre, he is the centre in the form team. Just because Wigan have been exceptionally coached doesn't mean that will automatically transfer to McBanana's coaching. A number of clubs' fans could argue their centres are equally as impressive, it depends what you use as the basis of your argument - Welham, Hardaker, Hall, Turner, Bridge have pretty good returns, despite being in poorer performing teams or playing poorly themselves of late. They perhaps deserve the chance to show if they are up to it as well?



I agree with both you & McBanana there. I would hope & expect the England coaching team have highlighted to every potential player the areas they need to concentrate on.

MCILORUM IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD. EVER.

I don't agree with some of the selections but with a full squad you'd assume the likes of Graham, Reed, Widdop, the Burgess Bros, Watkins, Heighington, and Westwood would be included, with those names added the squad looks fairly strong. Some people need to calm down.

Do you guys reckon Luke Burgess would get in the squad?

So if your playing well in a team that is playing well, shouldnt that mean you should be selected? And if a player is playing poorly of late, why should they be rewarded with a selection? Would it not be better to pick on form and confidence, for example the charnley try in the corner at ethiad with the basketball pass, or the dink through just before the hooter, all the signs of a player high on confidence.

To be honest im quite happy that both micky and goulding will be getting a rest, and would like a few others not to be playing for either team, I just like the idea of players being chosen on merit and not on name. Lets face it we know what players like sinfield, wilkin, burrow and roby can or cant do at international level, so in a meaningless game, would it not be better to try the odd new face instead of half a dozen players who have loads of caps?

when all the aussie based players come back in I hope we line up something like

1. Sam Tomkins
2. Josh Charnley
3. Jack Reed
4. Kallum Watkins
5. Ryan Hall
6. Gareth Widdop
7. Danny Brough
8. James Graham
9. James Roby
10. Sam Burgess
11. Gareth Hock
12. Gareth Ellis
13. Sean O'Loughlin

14. Lee Mossop
15. Luke Burgess
16. Ben Westwood
17. Mike McIllorum

but you know the likes of Sinfield, Ablett, Wilkin and Peacock will continously be selected because of the brainless coach we have.

At least in the side named above you have an exciting back line with plenty of pace and a forward pack which is aggressive, you also have a very big and aggressive bench.

I couldn't give a monkeys what Clarke says and I wouldn't know as I don't have Sky and I watch all Wigan games in the flesh so i'm going off my own eyes only.

McIlorum is playing as an 80 minute hooker this year and is playing out of his skin. He is butchering teams in defence and physically hurting people (legally) . In saying that it's his attack that's improved massively. He isn't a scooter hooker that just jumps out of dummy half all the time, he is keeping Wigan ticking over with impressive and slick distribution that's getting our forwards on a roll and he's picking holes in teams when running himself.

I can't speak highly enough of how well he's playing this year and like I say he has 'test match player' written all over him. I do believe he got in trouble for missing an ETS training camp recently though so his non selection may not be a playing issue anyway.

As for Goulding I agree he's probably not quite test match standard. He's the form centre in superleague and is playing a very important part in a very good Wigan side and Charnley is reaping the benefits (it's no coincidence Charnley has 21 try's) but when it comes to marking guys like Inglis, Hodges, Kenny-Dowell etc etc and going the other way when attacking them i'd back big athletes like Atkins, Reed or Watkins to get the job done rather then a player like Goulding who's great for his winger in superleague but won't get the same space at the international level.

6 Leeds players

Laughable isnt it. Good to see them all playing so well again tonight

if sinfield is 6 for england this week then i have changed my mind and banana skin should be sacked. one of the worse 6's in superleague he only knows how to tip it back inside and run across the line.

Then what's Leroy Cudjoe? Daz Goulding blows him out the water yet he is picked above him. I'm not disagreeing with your assessment BTW but IMO Goulding should be playing against the Exiles next week over Cudjoe.



I'll have to agree to disagree with you. McIlorum is a brilliant player and I will sing the lads praises till I'm blue in the face. He's only 24 and is really kicking on. He's an 80 minute hooker who's defence is absolutely ferocious. He might not make the same amount of tackles as Roby but he dominates the vast majority of the tackles he makes and really hurts the opposition - Roby doesn't. He's at the very fulcrum of all Wigan do in attack by some intelligent plays - leading our huge pack around the park. Like NickyKiss said I'd interchange him with Roby. He's certainly international class IMO & at 24 will continue to get better and better too.

I watched Sinfield closely against Warrington and i have to say that he was dreadful.
Defence - as weak as
Passing - every pass put his runner under pressure or was off target.
Kicking - rubbish
Lack of Speed - I think it was Grix from memory who went past him and Sinfield chased but it was like he was running up and down on the same blade of grass.

Watching the Leeds Wire game last night just enphasised what a joke it is that Jamie Peacock is going to be captaining and leading the England team. He got dominated in pretty much every carry and hardly ever makes any extra ground after first contact. He also never hits hard in defence, he's a shadow of the great player he was a few seasons back and it was embarassing at times how easy he was dominated by the likes of Hill and Carvell. The likes of LMS, Prescott, Hill, Taylor should be given a chance. Westwood would do a better job at prop aswell.

if leeds had a good 6 they would still be a good team, soon as sinfield gets the ball in attack it just dies and you never see him organising other than the 1 player who he wants to give a flat ball to (after running across and taking all the space away).

also if zak hardaker learns to pass he will be a very good fullback

I'd be very happy with that team but like you said "because of the brainless coach we have" personally i expect a very different looking team sadly

Are you out of your mind! Not enough Leeds players! Need to chop out at least 3 in form players for peacock, jjb and burrow (although he the least terrible)and then shoe horn in sinfiled somewhere for him to be crap again at test level.

Don't be daft our pack gets dominated week in week out having a world class 6 wouldn't make a difference behind these softcock forwards.