So, what this tells us is that Atkins' missed tackles ratio is 3.6% of those that he made compared to Shenton at 4.4%, Carmont at 5.6% and Yeaman at 8.9%

The stats still stack up in Atkins favour

They do - its an excellent ratio, but when you mention the missed tackle count only, it make the difference seem massive when its reasonably comparable to, say, shenton.

Precisely.



Yes, but 3.6% and 4.4% missed tackles are both good and fairly even stats over the course of a season.

10 and 27 missed tackles on their own look like a chasm in defensive class.

So what the selectors need to consider is the above ratio, where Atkins is superior, combined with who is considered a better positional defender, where the feeling is he is lacking.
[iIts better to be on hand with 100 men than absent with 10,000 (Machiavelli)[/i

Shenton has struggled to impress this year because of lack of ball. Saints just don't spread the ball to the right with the same ease. He still threatens, and often when Meli puts Foster in, its the play after Shenton has caused bother on his side.
He's still got it, Pryce fed him well for one of my favourite tries of the season against Catalans. The pace he came on to the ball and split the line was incredible.

that's because we always have the ball

ok then.

Yeaman misses 8.9% of tackles
Atkins misses 3.5% of tackles
carmont misses 5.5% tackles
shenton misses 4.3% of tackles

is this one selective and misleading?

*edit.... i see someone has already put you right on this

I hope that's the case against Austrailia

also... at no point did i claim that these stats show a full picture... you jumped to that conclusion.... I was using them to point out that this season he hasnt been a defensive liability, like many seem to think he is...

Hardly, we were all agreeing to the same point.

You have to admit, whilst Atkins still has the better stats in terms of the percentages (and vastly so compared to Yeaman), factoring in the amount of tackles made in place of just stating the missed statistics shows a better, more accurate picture.

I'm not disagreeing..... and I'm not arguing a case against all the other centres.... im arguing it FOR atkins.

the best attacking and defensive centre in SL

If anything, Guerier, galvanized that point.

Now before people start accusing me of wearing reds tinted glasses, trust me I know why one of the best, if not the best, finishers in SL - Jodie Broughton - doesn't get near the England team. His defence is terrible.

On the other wing we now have Danny Williams. I don't think he's as quick as Broughton, but he reads the game really well and comes up with some big plays in defence. It would be foolish to say he's the answer to England's problem in the backs, but Williams has shown the ability to make the right decision when he's been left stranded, something that's bound to happen to any winger in an England jersey. He's also using his strength and footwork to score the sort of tries that require finishing.

Won't be long before Warrington come a knocking.

would have broughton back at hull fc tomorrow!

Tony Smith has stated that Atkins could barely pass and catch when he came to Warrington and his core skills were very poor indeed. Considering that fact he is progressing very quickly, he still has the potential to be the very best.

Indeed, last 4N Atkins was terrible, but watching him this season he has just got better and better, and its the little things he is now doing that make this, like his passing, swapping the hand the ball is carried in and his aggression in defence

I never thought I'd say this but I'd pick him at centre for England now.

I like briscoe,shenton,bridge but to me hall is not the man for the job add in atkins on the wing as he has played often and outside bridge could be good?

Why not?

He's been extremely good for Wire, and what we got to lose? Not as though we have an extensive list of options, is it. Him, Shenton, Yeaman?

Lawrence and Watkins are outstanding young players but the ockers would murder them at this stage of their careers. Still, get them involved for the experience.

Agreed – I was also disappointed with him in the 4 Nations but he has clearly worked hard on his game and he is a much more rounded player now with skills to support his athleticism. Deserves another chance

You really wanted to just talk about Welham but thought we'd accuse you of Hull KR related bias so you though "they'll see through this, I know, I'll say Yeaman as well so it looks like I'm being fair".

There is an argument that Ryan Atkins is good enough to play international RL. There is no argument that Welham is. He's gash.

The percentage tackle stat exposed Welham's massive weekness. Missing 18% of tackles attempted. That's 1 in 5.

Not to mention that he is a ginge.

You talk more crap than almost anyone on these forums. Atkins will do just fine. He's a year older and a year wiser, but then I suppose that doesn't matter in your bin em world. Not all players mature at the same rate and he is a late bloomer. I reckon if he's picked he will do fine.

Bit over the top and not exactly what he said. Wakefield knew his issues and were working on them. Remember he was only 21 when he joined you and two ore full seasons is a lifetime in RL. Smith and a winning team have helped him move on as has general experience.

He's doing well IMHO as he always was.

Shenton is probably the best defensive centre in SL. Trouble is he offers little in attack ( never has, nowt to do with Saints style of play this year ). You can't just defend your way to victory against the likes of the Aussies.