Could they have survived in this league? Would the interest have been there? Would there have been any point in spending money playing in a similar standard league thousands of miles away?


Could this not have been argued to Catalans? And if they had relegation, they may have gone the safety route of all Aussies rather than trying to blood youngsters. Would this risk still be too much?


Increased exposure of the league in a new country?
Increased competition? (All sides, bar Doncaster, were competitive)
A new dimension to the league?


How much did it cost the clubs? I thought the RFL covered this?
And the situation was the same as explained at the start of the season. And the same as the Catalans one. It's not like it's something new to the sport. It's been done before and proven a success.


You could just say "French teams are exempt from relegation". Easy enough. Worked for me when I explained the Catalans thing to people. If they ask why, it's because they're a protected development club, which is usually replied with "fair enough".


There is plenty of fairness and integrity in the comp. I don't think there is one side in that top 6 that doesn't think that competition is worth winning in its own right. The sell-out that occurred for what was previous regarded as a "pointless trophy" seemed to be worth winning in its own right.

It'll be interesting to see how Toulouse go next season when their quota is cut to 2 overseas players. Or will the RFL 'forget' to impose it ? www.therfl.co.uk/championship/ne ... p?id=11628 Quote In 2009, in order to allow for existing contractual commitments, Toulouse will be allowed to field five overseas players in their first team squad. This will decrease to two players in 2010 which the RFL believes is the appropriate and fair level for the club to operate at.'"

It'll be interesting to see how Toulouse go next season when their quota is cut to 2 overseas players. Or will the RFL 'forget' to impose it ? www.therfl.co.uk/championship/ne ... p?id=11628 Quote In 2009, in order to allow for existing contractual commitments, Toulouse will be allowed to field five overseas players in their first team squad. This will decrease to two players in 2010 which the RFL believes is the appropriate and fair level for the club to operate at.'"

So what exactly are they in the Championship for ?




So by having australians in their key positions helps what exactly ?

What risk ?




The benifit of that exposure ?

' A new dimension ' , fancy word for ' gimmick '

Go on put some meat on the bones of ' the office ' speak




It cost the clubs because it is money out of the Championship ' prize pot '

Sorry having a club , any club finish below another and the club above getting relegated is not what you would call a success , I said vindicated , not a success




Most replied to me " Thats bollox "



As you well know that previously ' pointless trophy ' has now been given more value , as the press and media focused on at the time , just as getting to this years Championship GF has as much value as actually winning it if you read the lower tier boards on here

The Championship 1 final will be of more interest this year than the 2 nd tier one

As for the Fairness and integrity , check out the fans opions

This is littlerich's


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Starbug wrote: But that then brings into question what they bring to the competition and what they are getting out of being in it ?


They're preparing for SL. Why bother playing in England if they are just going to dick around in the Championship?

Year One: Bed in and acclimatise.
Year Two: Squadbuilding and competing
Year Three: Preparing for Franchise
Year Four: Bye bye Toulouse, hello Glasgow
...........and so the whole thing starts again.

What do we get out of it?





About right

We have had discussion on the Leyther mb about Toulouse and explaining it to soccer fans.
Why is it that depending on how you stand on their reasoning to be in our comp determines this soccer fans judgement of if its "bollox" or "fair enough"




ps I would glady welcome another French team into Championship1

Ballacks

Are you even aware of Barrow 4 fold increase over the last 4 yrs, nice steady sustainable growth, its not down to any large jumps in away support number either.

are you an idiot

Yes but 400% growth on not a lot is still not a lot in the grand scheme of things.

Good luck to Barrow though, if they want to die trying then they have every right to go for it.

To develop as a club, to develop French RL, to develop the Championship into a bigger and stronger competition (more competitive clubs than previously), to increase exposure (which it has helped do as Championship games are now being shown in France).

Ignore the positives to suit your own agenda.


To make the team competitive which will help them grow as a business? To help develop players around them? To rub off their knowledge on younger players in similar positions?
I hate this "Aussies bring nothing" argument as it is rubbish. They're here for a reason. Toulouse don't have the advantages of being able to tap into local SL cast-offs in the same way other Northern clubs do. What difference does it make if they're Aussies or SL cast-offs? They still didn't come through that club's academy and so are "taking the place" of someone that could have been developed by that club.


The risk of being relegated? Was that not clear in the post you quoted?


The benefit may not be instant, which is why some fans seem to have a problem with it. Anyone that cannot see the benefit of increased exposure in business needs to do a bit more research.

And fans that have been to the France trips don't seem to be unhappy with the "new dimension" to the league. I'm sure a competition that was previously just northern is better off having a bit more of a spread now to try and get rid of the usual "it's just a northern game" tag.


Hasn't the prize pot increased this year? Are clubs not getting more money now in the Championship than ever before?


But it's not the embarrassment you are making it out to be. It's happened in the past, every club knew the rules before hand, and the only fans to kick up a stink about it tend to be the ones that got relegated (or the ones that didn't know the rules). It's the sacrifices that need to be made if we want to develop our sport at a rate to keep us going. Had we maybe done these things earlier, we might be able to have a "soccer" system.


By most, that means some didn't.
And most soccer fans don't appreciate how lucky they are to have such an evenly spread sport with loadsa cash that they can apply such a fair P&R system.


Try telling that to the two teams that end up competing for it. Look how much Barrow wanted the league leaders shield, that affectively means nothing. What does the Challenge Cup bring teams? What about BARLA teams? RLC teams? Etc. It's a tired argument.


Just like the BARLA lower tier finals?


I have, and not every fan is a whinging one-eyed fan who looks at their teams best interests over that of the sport. Like I said, too many fans can only see the negatives. Why don't you list the positives? If you say there aren't any, you have proven my point, because there clearly are otherwise they wouldn't be here.

They are as good as the team that earned their right to be in the Championship. Why not start them at that level?

Had TO not been in the comp you would still have finished in the drop zone and gone down, so had TO not been involved the only difference would have been that they would have thrashed C1 sides for a year. I would have preffered that they had joined at that level and played more French players, but the benefit of the current system is
* No change in relegated club
* The French players have had a year testing at a higher level (although there were less of them)

MM wouldn't work with an odd number of teams - one of them would have no opponents.

Thats actually a very good point...

well, there's their first 2 points of the season then

:2amsqa9h

To develop as a club playing better opposition ? , yep , I'll accept that one

Develop the championship ? , nah not really

To increase exposure in France ? , yep , but Toulouses profile , not the Championship or the british clubs

:2amsqa9h

I cannot ignore what is not there


:2amsqa9h

To make them competitive to grow the business ? , ok yes

After that nah , no other reason stands up to argument , true they dont have as much quality ' rejects ' to pick up but they have a whole league that has just finished playing to look at , those aussies are stopping those players from getting a chance , however as long as the RFL stick to what they said before the season they will only have 2 next year , so we will see


:2amsqa9h

And that risk was what , they would be playing against RL teams ?

:2amsqa9h

May not be instant ? , so nothing yet then

Exposure for who ? Toulouse , yes although the main exposure at the moment is that there is a team in the Championship that dont get relegated when they finish 2 nd bottom in a league were 2 are relegated , whats the saying ? , any publicity is good publicity

:2amsqa9h

I went to Toulouse , had a decent enough time and Toulouse really went to town to make it enjoyable , wasn't intending to go next year but many others probably would , we have had a London team and a Welsh team recently but RL is still considered a ' northern ' game , the public and media will not be enlightened by the lower tiers , they dont even know we exist


:2amsqa9h

Some are , some arent , Toulouse are getting the most , but many especially the ones that need it most get very little

:2amsqa9h

It just makes us look more like that ' strange northern ' game everybody on here seems to be embarrased about

' Sacrifices ' , thats better


:2amsqa9h

The others just laughed

:2amsqa9h

Barrow wanted to get home advantage to ensure they have the best chance of making the ' tick the box ' final


:2amsqa9h

I havent seen many from those clubs asking to have something extra to play for , or complaining that something has been removed from winning a final

SL fans dont see a problem , not surprisingly as it means nothing to them

For the record I do feel that if Toulouse could have been relegated they would have played better and got the results needed to stay up , however the fact is they have damaged the credibility of the Championship this year by being excempt and finishing 2 nd bottom , this after the fiasco with the Visa's is driving fans away from the game at our level

Fans we cannot afford to lose

I'll leave it there and let you have the last say

how about all the negatives of them being in the championship being amplified to them and the clubs in that league? while the benefits are reduced?

You can, and you have. In fact, you have highlighted some that you have in this very post.



The first one is a positive you ignored.
The second one, how does it not develop the Championship? An extra team that is competitive. Surely having more competitive teams is one way of developing it? As well as extra coverage on French TV. As well as extra exposure for clubs in a new area. These may not be much, but they are still something, and the start of something that will grow given the chance.

And how you can argue that Toulouse's profile is the only thing that can be increased rather than the Championship (the comp they play in) or the clubs (the ones they're playing) is beyond me. Do the people of France that have been exposed to Toulouse just think they're playing on their own?


Another positive you ignored at first but see as one.

A lot of the reason to do with the Aussies is to do with the transition of a French club moving seasons. They usually play a winter season. This is why they've had trouble signing players. This is why they started uncompetitively and ended uncompetitively but were competitive in the middle. The transition will take a little time (which is why they were exempt from relegation), and why they are stepping down the number of imports they are allowed.

From what I can see, you want them playing with players that aren't ready yet and with relegation. Why even bother having them over here? Yet, if they follow the Catalan model, they will develop quickly and into a competitive side. They've just been given a little extra time for the transition, which is much better for the game then forcing them to do it slowly so a few footy fans that might be paying attention think it's "OK".


Are you really trying to say there is no risk in relegation?


I wouldn't know. I don't have access to everyone's accounts to see if it has made a difference yet. Are you gonna complain because an investment hasn't made instant dividends? Are you one of them people that don't see the point in spending that extra money insulating your house which will eventually see money saved in energy bills because it wouldn't benefit your pocket straight away?


That sounded like nothing more than a whinge to me.


Again, another "it wasn't instant". Do you expect all these clubs to come in at once? One at a time, slowly growing. But it's not instant, so what's the point? They don't know us, they never will, etc. And there are definitely no positives...




Which Championship clubs get more than others? For what reasons? And do you have a link to this or are you just speculating?


Why does it? What part of not relegating a French club makes people think of a Northern game? I can understand why people think it's strange, as that's what lots of people label things they don't fully understand. But Northern?
And it's not about being embarrassed about it being a northern game. It's about us wanting to expand the game so it's a bigger and better level that we want to develop these areas.


But no Barrow fan cared at all about winning the shield? None of 'em. I must have imagined all the ones on the forums starting threads about finishing top and winning the league...


People tend not to complain about things they never had.
Do your football fan friends not think it is strange that there is no promotion and relegation between the conference and Championship 1 as well? Because there is in soccer. Why don't you argue for that?


The only fans that seem to feel negatively about franchising are the ones of clubs that feel they (for some reason) have a divine right to be in the SL because they were once a great club. A case of "it's not best for me, so it shouldn't be allowed".


I disagree. I feel it would be made little difference, if any. They may have done worse. They may have panicked under the pressure.
And driving fans away? Most clubs have seen an increase in the Championship this year. Doncaster's drop was because they were crap and went into administration. Leigh's was probably a similar reason (but their fans can pretend they didn't turn up as a protest to the game, not because they were crap!), Batley probably the same. Haven's was about 60 people less. No idea why Widnes have dropped the way they have. The rest have seen an improvement.


I thought we were having a discussion? Why walk away from it before the end? Very very defensive. But whatever makes you feel better.

Before I make this post, I am all for expansion and I have not read the thread.

In my opinion, if we do get another French team, it SHOULD be the last one to enter SL. Obviously if after a few years, with good attendances and a good squad of French players, I'd personally think they should branch off and make their own league.

Having too many "Foreign" teams in SL is damaging the "Heartland" Clubs. Widnes could have much better attendances than Salford, but because of Celtic and Catalans their fans are supporting a team going nowhere, for the next 2 years, maybe even more, who knows?

I guess what I am trying to say is that the RFL and we Rugby League fans, as a Sport can only help the "Foreign" clubs as far as our own Clubs have gone. Obviously we need to wait a few years so that Catalan and France as a whole can get a fan base that can support a French League, as well as a France team that can compete and be challenging the top nations in the sport, rather than getting mauled.

I supose if the French league could take off like the FRU league has, then we could really have an International game take off. But, this will take years, we need to be patient.

But if Toulouse were to enter SL as well as Catalan, I think we would need to make SL bigger, with 16 teams. This could ensure English teams aren't being left out, and we are not ignoring the talent that we are producing in other areas of the country.

I think I could possibly type more and more, but it seems I'd be going over areas I have already covered.

Been in too many of these ' discussions ' in recent months/years and have now set a limit on how many long drawn out posts I will make

I disagreed when they let them in , I stated as such , nothing I have seen since has changed that opinion

All the best

The problem is who funds this; the SL is possible due to Sky, bu is there a French broadcaster willing to stump up the cash?

Also, if Cats and Toulouse build a good fan base, and then switch to the putative French comp, they will be financially incomparable to the other French clubs without a massive TV contract for all. If that's not there, the best French players will simply go to RU.



Then the argument for me is that Widnes should be in the SL instead of Salford.



We have lots of strong clubs. France do not; leaving Widnes in the wilderness for a few years, while harsh to their fans, does not really damage the game in this country. The inclusion of Catalans (and maybe Toulouse) does, however, have a massive effect on the French RL scene.

There is a French TV station that airs the Catalan games, so I'm sure they could stump up the cash. Even if it ment they only had an 8 team league to begin with, sure they had something like that before Catalans were included in SL.

We'll leave that argument for the Salford and Widnes fans



Like I said we would need to give them time and allow the French national team to be able to compete with the bigger nations. Obviously this could take years, if done right.

But the RFL need to seriously attempt to get more money out of SKY the next time the contract is up, just so that the players can be paid more or even so that there are more teams allowed to enter SL.

You do realise that there is already a French league and that there is a competition in britain below SL

Yes, what I'm trying to get at is that the main aim of expanding should be that these other countries can create leagues of their own and also enhance International RL. I guess I'm not being clear about it

That is one of the problems I have regarding the current expansion policy. What is the vision for SL and the French team(s) in it? Are we building French RL to a point where they can run independently their own version of SL and the French teams will then all play in that league? Are we simply to keep adding more French teams over time and if so what will the overall balance be between the number of French and British teams?

The RFL should state clearly where they want to take SL, what the vision is for SL in 10/15 years time then we the fans and the clubs can decide if we want to buy into that vision or not.

Stumping up a bit of extra cash for one club (?) is not the same as funding an entire pro league, though. I think the scales are very different.



I believe they can - and what's more, with the increased emphasis by clubs on finding and using other revenue streams in addition to the TV money I believe the SL is in good shape to add another 2 teams in terms of the finances; with the salary cap in place, it won't need much of an increase to fund 2 new teams to a decent level. Whether the player base is quite up to it is another matter.

I see no reason why, in principle, we can't have 20 teams in the SL apart from the strain it puts on the players.