Anyone would think Ben had just come out of jail for attempted murder, ffs it's was a couple of punches you see worse on a night out, rugby is a tough, physical game where you need aggression or you will get injured if you start going into or tackling not aggressive and 100% committed. Let's bloody move on with the whole saga I've had enough of it now.

P.s. What a stirring git eddy Hemings is.

To be fair, if you saw what Flower did on a night out, there probably would be a jail sentence handed down!

You could say that about any incident to be fair.

Recent rugby league has been littered with acts every bit as nasty as the one from last years Grand final. In fact our game has always had its fair share of nasty incidents.

What Flower did was pretty wrong, but apart from having a sore head for a few days, Hohaia was not seriously hurt.

We could probably all think of plenty that were nasty, calculated and left the victim in a much worse state. Still it was the GF and did draw unwanted attention to the game. However the fall out and subsequent dross spat out across traditional and social media has been an absolute joke.

Really? I'm struggling to think of recent RL incidents as bad as that. I'd say the last one to qualify in the same bracket was Chase on Ropati, after that it was probably Newton on Long.

A sore head? Hohaia was not seriously hurt due to luck. It was a terrible act that deserved a long punishment.

Almost every word of that is patently and blatantly untrue. As Him has suggested, there are very few incidents that you can compare to Flower's which is why it received such media attention and such a lengthy punishment. I'm glad that the authorities saw the incident differently to you, because otherwise that moment could have caused the game permanent damage.

Westwood's sly, blindside attack on Green the year before was worse.

I've not seen anyone bagging Flower - most are happy he's done his time and is moving on.

It's Wane's choice of words to the media that are silly!

Where in my post do i make ANY reference to the "authorities"?

I quite clearly stated MEDIA

Just so you never missed it

[size=200MEDIA[/size

No complaints from me regarding ban.

IMO opinion both incidents which caused these injuries were as bad. In fact the latter was much worse IMO. Premeditated and calculated

You stated that what Flower did was no worse than a lot of other things you see - I disagree, I think it's much worse than most things I've seen, and the authorities agree with me. Sorry you went to all the trouble of putting in big letters and pictures to emphasise a point I didn't miss. If you really think Ben Westwood's swinging arm was as bad as a punch to the head of a practically unconscious guy lying defenceless on his back then there is clearly no point talking to you because you're delusional.

All Wane has done is to try to make sure that Flower retains his aggression.

EVERY player that plays the sport relies on Aggression. Obviously that is controlled aggression, but aggression non the less.

Without aggression a prop forward would be rendered totally useless and may as well quit the game.

Ben Flower has shown nothing but remorse for what happened and i can imagine he is petrified of it ever happening again.

Remember what happened to both Eubank and Benn?

Neither were ever the same after their respective incidents. A symptom of them losing aggression from fear of the consequence.

All Wane is trying to do is stop Flower from being scared to get stuck in.

Green was lying on his belly with two other Wire defenders lying on top of him. He was punched very hard and clean by Westwood in a [uPREMEDITATED[/u attack.

Now read the following statements and tell me if i am incorrect in any way

Hohaia was totally unable to defend himself for the second punch. He could not see it coming and he could not raise a hand to stop the punch by his attacker

Green was totally unable to defend himself for the first punch. He could not see it coming and he could not raise a hand to stop the punch by his attacker

And that's fair enough - I don't disagree with Wane on that - I want all props in RL to be tough and aggressive, however that's not my point.

My point is Wane shouldn't be saying he wants his player to be 'more aggressive' in the media in a direct response to an interview about him returning from a 6 month ban for pure thuggery. Regardless of the motive behind the comment, it sets at terrible scene.

He can say what he likes to Flower in the background - and if Flower is stupid enough to go out and coward shot someone, then that's his own fault. But Wane has a duty to the game and I feel his team talk on the documentary followed by the Flower incident should be enough for him to realise he needs to button it publicly with the macho bravado BS as it makes our game look thuggish.... It's not about his motive, it's about the impression it paints to the casual viewers. Think of a casual viewer watching Sky Sports news and seeing the video of Flower and the story he's returning from a 6 month ban for his actions and then seeing his coach saying he wants him to be 'more aggressive' - is that the image we want to portray? Is that going to encourage parents to introduce their kids to this 'family game'?

I'm all for the biff, it's part of the game in my view - but there's a line, Flower crossed it, was punished accordingly, but as a game, we need to be showing that we want none of that, Wane and his comments are too near to the knuckle.

I understand what you are saying, however i would argue that these particular circumstances are different.

IF flower was a notorious thug, that spent the last 6 months swaggering around and showing no remorse and had a string of convictions for violent acts then Wane would be totally wrong for trying to up his aggression levels.

From the outside looking in, Flower has spent the last 6 months timmering like a mouse. Worried for his family and worried that one split second act of utter stupidity could have ruined his career and potentially seen him doing time in the clanger.

Encouragement to be aggressive is the polar opposite to being encouraged to be violent.

Every single coach in the entire world of Rugby league asks for 'aggression' and that is all that Wane is doing here. Nothing more nothing less.

In my opinion the fact that Wanes recent statement has been jumped on has nothing do do with anything other than the outraged majority having a whine.

If people thought about it a little more pragmatically, then they would see a coach telling his player he needs to perform as a prop forward should do. Otherwise he will not be in the squad

Nothing more

Nothing less

it was awful and disgarceful, but worse than punching a smaller,unconscious man on the ground in the head?

not for me.

One finished up with a broken bone and could have been blinded, the other didn't.

Hohaia COULD have suffered far worse injury than he did just like Green COULD have been blinded.

i have said it was a disgraceful thing, but IMO it wasn't worse than punching an unconscious man full on, on the head.
i wasn't referring to the injuries sustained, i was referring to the actual misdemeanour.

People really need to let it go, it's getting boring now. Flower hit him on the floor he shouldn't have, it happened, it's over with. Wigan lost saints won no injustice there, anybody would have thought he attempted to murder someone

Like I've said - this ain't really about Flower, or whether his act was worse than any other, it's about his coach stating in the media he wants him to be 'more aggressive' in direct response to questions about his return from suspension... It's a stupid comment to make by Wane to the media...



Can you not see that his 'more aggressive' comment didn't need to be aired to the media - say what you want behind closed doors, even publicly support Flower, but the 'more aggressive' quote to the media is both needless and stupid in the context of the situation. Surely you can see what negative message this could give to a non-RL person, or a casual viewer?

He can tell his player whatever he wants privately and still back the player publicly, but he has a duty to play down the 'aggression' in the media and portray a much more family friendly response to a player returning to the game after a lengthy ban for an unsavoury incident - would you not agree Wane could and should have given a more watered down and sanitised statement?

The only people who need to "let it go" are some Wigan fans who somehow think he's been hard done to either in the media, by fans or by the RFL.

Don't try and turn Flower into a victim. He's not.

Well as a Wigan fan i completely agree that Wane did not have to push this out to the media.

However as we have become accustomed to during the last 3 years, Wane loves to have a good natter to the press. He will openly discuss almost every aspect of his thoughts with the press.

Honestly i would not read to much into it. Its what he does.

How am I trying to turn flower into the victim? What's done is done, what happened-happened it's old news, it was stupid and a rush of blood, I just don't see the point in keep dragging it up

Which is kind of my point - he needs to think about the connotations of his comments. Wigan need either a different front man or a better media manager who can reign in his comments and probably veto anything that backs up the thugby reputation - such as the airing of that awful team talk on the documentary....

Also, I don't accept your view that ALL coaches are the same - I've never heard another coach tell their team to go out and be 'wreckless' as Wane did on the documentary. But, even if they do, that's not the image we should be portraying in the media.

Right.

At no point gave I said anything remotely like 'all coaches say be reckless'

I said all coaches will ask for aggression. As do fans and even the commentators ask for more 'aggression'

It's what wins rugby league games.

There was me thinking it was skill- perhaps that just the NRL?