Nah mate, I can accept mistakes from players, but IMO poor defensive discipline from one of your experienced players and poor effort play from any player deserves calling out.
They're still both top quality players but if England want to compete at the top level those are the areas they need to tidy up.

I'm a Wigan fan by the way.

Thats good to know,but they were not the only ones make a mistake,and I am not defending them just pointing out facts.

That's what I'm saying though, those weren't mistakes, its poor play from 2 of our top players, yes there were issues across the team but these are identifiable individual plays that should be picked out and worked on. The Samoans clearly targeted our right edge, probably picking out Watkins lack of pace, he needed support out there and at times he didn't get it.

Just to show what I mean about mistakes, Bateman does make a mistake in Samoa's 2nd try, he's in the tackle and when he gets back to the line he picks the wrong side of the ruck to defend. I can forgive that because he's in the correct channel and he's made the effort to get back into the line, he also might have got a call to come inside. Its a mistake, which is fair enough.
Him leaving his channel to defend up the middle because he's a frustrated loose forward and one of our star players standing watching a try happen with his hands on his hips making zero effort to get back to help is IMO unacceptable at the top level.

I dont know what to say to that ! bad play by Bateman cost us the game maybe that is what you want to read.
Have a look now at other players to see if they have made bad plays in that game.I wont as I see mistakes and bad plays were made by players and not just the one trying to be made into a scapegoat for the loss.It doesnt really matter as we lost and no amount of blame will change that.

You can say what you want mate!
I saw another thread turning into a p#ssing contest between Wigan and Saints fans and thought to balance it out I'd offer what I thought was valid criticism of a player from either side.
I don't think either player cost us the game, we had issues all over the pitch, lack of impact in the forwards and lack of patience and composure in the backs.

Overall our spine was jobby.

Cheers,I agree that you have given a balanced view and not just singled out a Wigan player as some do with your issues all over the pitch comment which is both valid and honest.
Which is my point .

Everyone on here has their club bias, there's only a few who let it completely cloud their judgement.
There were some "sad" posters on here who were blaming Wigan before a ball was kicked, its best to ignore them.

I do think that he and the team screwed up against Samoa, they lost their whole play and never recovered, I think the team were better than they played against Samoa, they just got caught short on the day, like every team can.

Wane took most of the blame and rightly so, every man and his dog could see our right hand defence was weak and under pressure he should have made adjustments. Too many experienced leadership players having an off day and not creating anything.

Biggest problem was our distribution from No 9 position didn't really send the ball out wide or towards a deeper second phase, that just cut down the time and space for our half backs. Wane had Radley at 9 and Knowles at 13 and it looked better but Wane removed that in the last 10 mins when we needed more.........bad call that.

Wane out 100%

mcclorum being in the squad was bad enough. He has never been international class.
Didn't help England lost a few players to injury. Not to mention Roby not being convinced to play, which I'm led to believe he would have done.

Wane has to go for that performance against a team England should have won. Disgraceful

Not sure there is an adequate replacement though? Brian Mcdermott maybe.

Just read an article about how gutted Leeming was for not playing for England which just makes my blood boil even more that Wane picked that waste of space Mcllorumicon_sad.gif

Leeming had a great season, no idea why he was off the list.

Oh well, big breaths, I'm sure you'll get over it.

Because he cant tackle and would get absolutely mullered at international level. I can see why Wane picked McIllroum, even if others cant.

Not sure where you have been, that is what happened to the team he picked lol.

When did England get mullered in this World Cup?

I can see the benefit of McLlorum in the first quarter to hold the defensive middle together but after that he was gassed. We needed an attacking No 9 iwith quick distribution n the last quarter so what does Wane do, bring on a slow McLlorum so our half backs were put under more pressure.

getting knocked out by samoa and not even playing another tier 1 team in the comp is essentially the same as getting mullered.

Leeming's defence is probably the reason why. That, and his lacklustre form at the end of the season, which saw him displaced from a starting position by Jarrod O'Connor after Leeming returned from an injury. He's still a contender for next time though.

Again, I ask, when did England get mullered?

I didnt say they got mullered, you did.

See here