I agree with you on Guerra.

We already have better stand off's who wont get in the squad for 1 reason or another. He is an exciting run and full of heart tho.

I like Mantellato but he is not better than Charnley or Hall.

Ben westwood has been off form for awhile now but i still would say we have better players than Mark Minichiello he is solid more than anything.

Most Aussie teams do have

Agreed. It's taken years of dedicated work but it's great to see italy developing so many top quality players.

Maybe England are trying to lull the Aussies into a false sense of security - they won't believe we really are this bad!!

The halves really are poor - the worst 6+7 of the better sides by quite a distance - for those Leeds fans who watch him every week Sinfield's demise this year has been dramatic - not allowed to criticise him on Southstander, its blasphemy!!

What was the point of SA = did either the Aussies or the Kiwis feel the need for high altitude training!! I bet Nigel Wood, Ralph Rimmer and Blake Solly got their passport stamped too!! A jolly plain and simple

We would have won if Ben Westwood wasn't banned.....

Or low attitude sickness?

Nearly 20 years of SOOOOOOPER DOOOOOOPER league, 2nd rate, past it, never would be, never will be, holidaying, pension seeking oceanics n the game to improve standards and this is where the national has got to.
1978 was the threshold for Aussie change, and 1982 should have beeen the catalyst for the british change but it was misdirected.
However another "opportunity" was presented in 1996 and like the previous occasions the clubs and RFL made, and still make a horlicks of the game in this country.

I have had my comments previously derided b "experts on these forums.

Well .........


I TOLD YOU SO and results like this do not make me happy.

But then I am pretty good at joined up thinking and don't think that blinkers are a decent fashion accessory.


I'll take a guess at yet another Australia V New Zealand final with 35000 at old trafford with most getting free tickets to swell the gate.

Leeds fans I know have said the same thing, as much as they love Sir Kev they say he shouldn't be in the national side.

Chase can't play to a structure and probably better as an impact player off the bench at international level.

Widdop/Burrow looks the best combo with what's left unless he moved Tomkins to 6 and bought Hardaker in at 1.

The Danny Brough saga will haunt McBanana until he is relieved of his duties.

To be honest, I think attitude was the primary problem: attitude of the coach and the players alike IMO.

The frustrating thing with the SA trip is that it's well known that partial acclimatisation takes a minimum of two weeks, so neither the warm nor the altitude would have made any real difference to the fitness of the players. When you consider the game fitness v's training then it's even more farcical as a fitness exercise.

However, as a team building trip it's probably worth doing. Maybe too much fun was had and this week is a friendly wasn't more than a chance to blow out some cobwebs, but also one that Italy winning is a good move politically for the international game?

Super League needs to be re-named !

Eddie & Stevo with their OTT commentary do not fool us Championship 'scum' Rugby League fans !!!!

All seemed ok up to kick off.

But the crowd was very quiet for first 20 minutes which seemed to worsen an attitude that didn't seem right.
Only two played to anything like potential - Tomkins and Sinfield. For those who are criticising Sinfield, note he was off the field for most of the middle 40+ minutes.

The 20 minute torrential downpour before half time didn't seem to please the English players!

Think another factor was that they didn't want to use key plays in front of the watching Australia team

Noting what RL Bandit said, it did seem to me that a good number of players looked somewhat overweight & sluggish. A few days of hard fitness and speed training are needed this week.

The intensity of the occasion next week will bring the best out of England and, if they can also come out with the right attitude, all is certainly not lost at this stage.

Sorry, i don't buy that. The season's only just finished and the players are about to play in some of the biggest games of their careers. They should definitely not be overweight or sluggish. If their attitude wasn't right then that is unforgivable. I hope the match was a big reality check for some of them...

So the RFL thinks their fans always buy tickets late and so things will be alright on the night? What will this result do to ticket sales?

I agree that warm weather training is no preparation for lashing rain and freezing temperatures. Am I right in recalling they did sometging similar before the last disastrous WC here? If they did - didn't they learn from their mistakes?

I think the result may help - England now realise that just how bad they are and will now hopefully play for pride and get some results. Certainly they need to forget anything their coach has told them. Do that and they may do OK.

I think the WC's ticket sales will now depend on Australia letting us win the first one.

Well. That was unexpected. Scotland need to watch out.

Half back combos

Chase/Sinfield got 30mins. Didn't click, not on same wavelength.
Chase/Widdop got next 30mins, bit better, but well short of what they can individually do
Burrow/Widdop got 10mins, forgettable
Burrow/Sinfield finished. They at least can play together, but have nothing to disturb NZ, or the various levels of Aussie teams in the comp

The props were ok, but didn't stand out

Sam burgess had an attack of "need to do everything myself"

All the 2nd rowers had problems holding onto the ball, or put in a poor pass to their centres which allowed the defence to get across.

Plenty to work on. Especially the 2nd rowers

You don't get jetlag from SA to UK

sounds like a train wreck

Tomkins would get his hands on the ball if he played stand off. He'll never make a FB because he can't catch when the pressure's on. Hardaker should be FB and Tomkins SO - especially as we have no other remotely credible SO.

No Myler, No Brough. Picking a player with virtually no experience ahead of Crabtree.

Macbanna has always been a joke coach and know he has the opportunity to showcase himself on the world stage.

Very embarrassing for all concerned. Worst ever defeat for England RL?

Still, that 'Italian' side was a pretty strong line up dominated by NRL and international veterans. They were never going to be any mugs and if I'd known about the 50-odd point start the bookies gave them I'd have had that bet.

While it's a shock, I'm not reading too much into a mix & match, swap & change team in the pouring rain in front of a small and subdued crowd with the Aussies watching on. Sounds like the only ones up for it were the Italians and when one side is fired up while the other is having a stroll things will never be easy.

That said, Australia will be even more confident than usual. We're in for a tough ride next week.



Just remembered, I'm part Italian.

[size=70the remaining parts being English, Irish and Scottish...[/size

Yes - worst ever defeat.

All this Italy being stuffed with class is plain silly. They are ranked 13 for a reason. If the players were as good as people are deluding themselves over they'd be playing for Australia.

Fact is it is utterly, utterly embarrassing for English Rugby League. We all know the coach is wholly inadequate but that's no excuse. The players must take a long hard look at themselves as they have gone down as the WORST performers EVER (that's in over a century) to represent their country in this sport. Sorry lads but that's how s**t you are. The record book shows it. There's no hiding place now. You need to stand up - like so many of our forefathers have had to do in more serious theatres. Nothing less than winning the tournament will do now.

Is it this squad of players who have been ranked 13th or is it a squad of players that ply ther trade in Italy?

I thought that I could make a measured response, but I cannot. That was shocking.
After the first try I thought "we'll start playing any minute now." After the second "A chance to show some character." By the end of the game I just wanted to take the vuvuzelas off the Crosby family (Yes Dom your drunken relatives) sat behind me and stick them up the s of the team.

Are we all overreacting to this result? We lost narrowly to Italy who are 2001-1 with the bookies to win the World Cup, where's the shame in that?

The result is a monumental hammerblow to england.