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| Quote ="RoyBoy29"If the RFL raised the salary cap by another £1m, how many team's would struggle to raise revenue to accommodate the expenditure'"
Probably all but Saints, Leeds, Wigan, Warrington and possibly Hull. Which is part of our problem. One reason why SL quality isn't great is that we're placing all the responsibility for dealing with income inequality on the richer clubs to avoid spending, rather than on the poorer clubs to raise their incomes and spend more. There needs to be an increase, and it needs to be quick, because the Aussies will be looking harder at our remaining international class players now, and they've plenty of cash to wave around.
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| I can't believe some of the rubbish on here about Bennett. That is the first time we have competed in a must win game against them since 2003, when the Kangaroos brought probably their worst squad in 30 years to England. The reason we lost that game is that we just didn't have enough quality in 1, 6 and 7 to create tries. We've heard for years that our pack was as good/better than theirs - this time it actually was. Give England any one of Slater, Morgan and Cronk and we'd have won that.
What Bennett really changed was defence. Whilst we bemoan our lack of creativity etc, Australia, who had been scoring for fun were only able to manage one try, and for most of the second half were almost no threat at all. I have NEVER seen an England team do that to them in defence, including the times we've beaten them since 1982.
Also, re Widdopp I think its unfair to say he isn't a stand off. He was basically the only attacking playmaker and always on the right. No surprise he struggled to get killer passes away and took some dumb risks at times.
Bennett was conservative, but in the end Betts probably picked most of the fringe players like Brown, and he wouldn't have picked either Bateman in the centres or Heighington at all if he'd had clearly better options available. Does anyone seriously think if he had a left centre as good as Watkins on the right that he wouldn't have picked him? Or played someone other than Gale/Brown if they were standouts?
Personally whilst gutted for the loss, I couldn't be prouder of the effort we put in. That's the third game I've been to in Brisbane vs Australia, and the first where we looked like we belonged on the same field as them.
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| James Graham spoke up for Wayne Bennett at the post match interviews. That is good enough for me.
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"I can't believe some of the rubbish on here about Bennett. That is the first time we have competed in a must win game against them since 2003, when the Kangaroos brought probably their worst squad in 30 years to England. The reason we lost that game is that we just didn't have enough quality in 1, 6 and 7 to create tries. We've heard for years that our pack was as good/better than theirs - this time it actually was. Give England any one of Slater, Morgan and Cronk and we'd have won that.
What Bennett really changed was defence. Whilst we bemoan our lack of creativity etc, Australia, who had been scoring for fun were only able to manage one try, and for most of the second half were almost no threat at all. I have NEVER seen an England team do that to them in defence, including the times we've beaten them since 1982.
Also, re Widdopp I think its unfair to say he isn't a stand off. He was basically the only attacking playmaker and always on the right. No surprise he struggled to get killer passes away and took some dumb risks at times.
Bennett was conservative, but in the end Betts probably picked most of the fringe players like Brown, and he wouldn't have picked either Bateman in the centres or Heighington at all if he'd had clearly better options available. Does anyone seriously think if he had a left centre as good as Watkins on the right that he wouldn't have picked him? Or played someone other than Gale/Brown if they were standouts?
Personally whilst gutted for the loss, I couldn't be prouder of the effort we put in. That's the third game I've been to in Brisbane vs Australia, and the first where we looked like we belonged on the same field as them.'"
Pretty much agree with that. Hopefully Percival improves his game so that he demands selection. Either that or someone like Gildart steps up. At halfback I'm not sure what the options are really. We do need to be able to attack down both sides of the field. Widdop was good IMO but we're lacking a stand off for the left side attack.
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| If Sutcliffe is now to make Left Centre his own for Leeds as seems the plan, that could well be the perfect solution as he will already have struck up a good understanding with Hall.
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"If Sutcliffe is now to make Left Centre his own for Leeds as seems the plan, that could well be the perfect solution as he will already have struck up a good understanding with Hall.'"
Agreed, if he can make the step up. He, Percival and Gildart are the future in that position.
It's No 6 that's the problem area IMO.
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| from the England team that played in the final who wont be around in 4 years time to keep the progress going and finally win it??
o'loughlin will be too old
mcgillvary will be 33
roby
heighington
hall?
graham?
5 stars wont be there next time possibly, need the next ones to come along to keep us going upwards
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| Quote ="brearley84"from the England team that played in the final who wont be around in 4 years time to keep the progress going and finally win it??
o'loughlin will be too old
mcgillvary will be 33
roby
heighington
hall?
graham?
5 stars wont be there next time possibly, need the next ones to come along to keep us going upwards'"
I think next point of call for planning is for the Ashes 2 years away which is winnable, 4 years is a long way off.
For 2019 the only players you would certainly write off are SOL and Heighington. The hope is some of the younger lads start pushing themselves on to a higher level and force out the old guard over this four year period.
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| I hope he stays on and can build on what has been started. I’ve seen us beat Australia in the odd game here and there but never compete like that in a game of such significance.
I believe the difference between the two sides is SOO. The Australian squad all have experience of games of that magnitude and know how to perform. When you look at our key players in the final Widdop, Brown and Gale don’t have that experience and knowledge. We have the raw ability but certain players need to learn to perform on the big day.
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| Quote ="Trainman"I hope he stays on and can build on what has been started. I’ve seen us beat Australia in the odd game here and there but never compete like that in a game of such significance.
I believe the difference between the two sides is SOO. The Australian squad all have experience of games of that magnitude and know how to perform. When you look at our key players in the final Widdop, Brown and Gale don’t have that experience and knowledge. We have the raw ability but certain players need to learn to perform on the big day.'"
I agree that many of our players lack experience of playing that level of game. Outside of the NRL they're not likely to get it either unless we start playing NZ and maybe Tonga regularly. Widdop has played plenty of NRL and it's no surprise he performed best of the three playmakers.
I hope that the next generation of halfbacks and backs get plenty of gametime for their SL sides next year (I'm thinking of the likes of Richardson, Trueman and Walker) so they ready for tests in 2-3 years. By then I hope Williams has established himself too.
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| Quote ="Trainman"I hope he stays on and can build on what has been started. I’ve seen us beat Australia in the odd game here and there but never compete like that in a game of such significance.
I believe the difference between the two sides is SOO. The Australian squad all have experience of games of that magnitude and know how to perform. When you look at our key players in the final Widdop, Brown and Gale don’t have that experience and knowledge. We have the raw ability but certain players need to learn to perform on the big day.'"
This.
I’ve just got back from Aus, and the feeling over there post match I got from talking to other fans was that we carry on with Bennett.
That’s the closest we’ve been in decades in a WC. 7 points from winning the World Cup in the Aussies back yard does not require the level of criticism I’ve seen from certain “fans”.
Bennett set that team up to win the game pretty much perfectly. Unfortunately we were a killer pass, kick or ankle tap away from it being carried out.
He’s been with that squad what, just 70 days(?) worth of face to face time in total, if that. Imagine what he could get out of the England side after another 4 seasons.
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| Quote ="DGM"He’s been with that squad what, just 70 days(?) worth of face to face time in total, if that. Imagine what he could get out of the England side after another 4 seasons.'"
But that's one of the problems with keeping him imo. He's too busy throughout the year coaching Brisbane week in week out. As pointed out on other threads this England team will need to evolve and change over the next few years. Is a man who is busy coaching at the other side of the world the ideal man for that? His selections struck of somebody who hasn't watched too much SL and whilst people may slate the quality of SL over the NRL at the end of the day that is where nearly all our player pool is competing in.
If he can get that close to beating the Aussies now then what could he do if he took up the role full time and spent quality time over here watching English players in action. If he isn't prepared to do that then he should go.
And it's ok saying one pass here or there, let's not forget he was one dropped ball in the SF from overseeing one of the most embarrassing capitulations in sporting memory.
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"I think next point of call for planning is for the Ashes 2 years away which is winnable, 4 years is a long way off.
For 2019 the only players you would certainly write off are SOL and Heighington. The hope is some of the younger lads start pushing themselves on to a higher level and force out the old guard over this four year period.'"
ashes in 2019? how many games and what country is that played in?
that would be a good one to focus on for sure
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| Better start giving some new players a go eh if you want them to be ready for the next World Cup.
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| Quote ="brearley84"ashes in 2019? how many games and what country is that played in?
that would be a good one to focus on for sure'"
Its a 3 test series in Australia like the old days not sure if there are any other games but it would be nice if we could play any of PNG/Fiji/Samoa/Tonga before the series begins.
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"Its a 3 test series in Australia like the old days not sure if there are any other games but it would be nice if we could play any of PNG/Fiji/Samoa/Tonga before the series begins.'"
Should be a 5 game tour:
Samoa
Fiji
New Zealand
Tonga
Australia.
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"Its a 3 test series in Australia like the old days not sure if there are any other games but it would be nice if we could play any of PNG/Fiji/Samoa/Tonga before the series begins.'"
Has that been confirmed? The three test series against Australia, I mean.
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| 2 good reasons to keep Bennett:
1). The players seem to want him.
2). Schofield says he should go.
Number 2 is a good enough reason on its own
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| Quote ="Trainman"2 good reasons to keep Bennett:
1). The players seem to want him.
2). Schofield says he should go.
Number 2 is a good enough reason on its own'"
To be fair to Schoey, he usually raises some pertinent points, and his thoughts on the state of our game are never far from the truth, particularly around creativity and half back play - his main problem is how he gets his message across and the fact the he often slates the current game and talks as though his era were much better against the Aussies - bar the odd result, they weren't really, and they were on a much more level playing field with the Aussies than today's players.
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| In Schofield's day we were still bringing in RU outside backs of quality, and we still never beat Australia. We haven't had access to that source for over a decade.
What we haven't seen is a halfback (6 or 7) come through with the natural ability of a Schofield or Gregory. In fact I'd say that's part of the problem, we rely on someone magical turning up despite poor development. In Australia every year there's at least one new halfback with real potential somewhere. They don't all make it, but they at least have a pathway. You won't see a new kid in the NRL who can't at least pass and kick accurately, unlike some of the 'halfbacks' starting in SL.
I've said it before, but I'd love the clubs/RFL to pay for someone like Andrew Johns to run a halfback clinic with Academy players once a year. Even better would be to provide decent coaching to them throughout the year, but as ever money would be the issue.
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| Quote ="Muggins"Has that been confirmed? The three test series against Australia, I mean.'"
No. There's talk of us going around the Pacific Islands instead. Either way expect us to be going down south that year.
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| and talks as though his era were much better against the Aussies - bar the odd result, they weren't really, and they were on a much more level playing field with the Aussies than today's players.
disagree somewhat. 1982 we were blown away out classed in every department, the young lions team of 84 including Schofield were also well beaten but were starting to claw the gap back, 86 we were beaten by they best international term ever assemble, we played well in the first test and played some cracking rugby, we were well beat in the second test and robbed blind in the 3rd. 88 injury hit squad was competitive in every game and famous win in the 3rd. 1990, 1992 (including world cup final) through to 94, all those serious were were not only competitive but we could and should have won one if not all, 1990 was the won we really lost rather than Australia won. Schofield was at the helm for all those serious. we also had Andy Gregory, Shaun Edwards, all time greats, plus pretty good world class halves around like Derek Fox, David Hulme, and Darryl Powell. we really have struggled to produce not more that 5-6 really and i mean really good halves in 20 years of super league. we have had players who look the part but he don't kick on not at international level.
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| Quote ="Biff Tannen"Its a 3 test series in Australia like the old days not sure if there are any other games but it would be nice if we could play any of PNG/Fiji/Samoa/Tonga before the series begins.'"
nothing confirmed about these ashes you talk of
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Quote ="brearley84"nothing confirmed about these ashes you talk of'"
apologies I may have got things slightly wrong, however there is going to be a southern hemisphere GB tour in 2019 ( unconfirmed who we are playing as of now) which could include tests against Australia. And the Kangaroos are definitely playing at least three tests against GB and one against France when they come over in 2020 as stated below -
www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-league ... rnational/
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Quote ="brearley84"nothing confirmed about these ashes you talk of'"
apologies I may have got things slightly wrong, however there is going to be a southern hemisphere GB tour in 2019 ( unconfirmed who we are playing as of now) which could include tests against Australia. And the Kangaroos are definitely playing at least three tests against GB and one against France when they come over in 2020 as stated below -
www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-league ... rnational/
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Quote ="Biff Tannen"apologies I may have got things slightly wrong, however there is going to be a southern hemisphere GB tour in 2019 ( unconfirmed who we are playing as of now) which could include tests against Australia. And the Kangaroos are definitely playing at least three tests against GB and one against France when they come over in 2020 as stated below -
www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-league ... rnational/'"
Nope.
As I read it it says:
"Traditionalists will welcome the return of the Lions, although the national team will continue as England for the World Cups and incoming tours."
Hence as the Aussies are coming to Europe in 2020 (i.e. an incoming tour) they'll be playing against England not GB.
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Quote ="Biff Tannen"apologies I may have got things slightly wrong, however there is going to be a southern hemisphere GB tour in 2019 ( unconfirmed who we are playing as of now) which could include tests against Australia. And the Kangaroos are definitely playing at least three tests against GB and one against France when they come over in 2020 as stated below -
www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-league ... rnational/'"
Nope.
As I read it it says:
"Traditionalists will welcome the return of the Lions, although the national team will continue as England for the World Cups and incoming tours."
Hence as the Aussies are coming to Europe in 2020 (i.e. an incoming tour) they'll be playing against England not GB.
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