Mediocre? I can see this will be a pretty pointless argument to start with: you're clearly down on English RL if you think all of our players are mediocre.

I fully understand some RU players are just as athletic as RL players. The argument over who is more athletic is meanignless - both codes demand different conditioning.

Anyway, Andy Farrell, an ageing RL loose/second row with bust knees who'd been filling in at prop walked into the England team at centre only a few years ago and he still had the pace, power and agility to mix it at international level. Where were all their incredible athletes then?


I didn't say 20-stone players were playing 7s, did I? But the fact is they aren't generally trained or used to looking to bust tackles, as RL lads are. Yes, 7s players look for more offloads, but surely RL players who are conditioned for and have spent their careers looking to bust tackles and get the ball away would be an asset.

Anyway, these fantastic 7s players you're creaming over are still just rugby players - they've come from a club and they'll be going back to a club. They join the 7s circuit for a little while and that's yer lot. They don't spend all their careers specialising in 7s and conditioning themselves for 2 x 7 minutes of play.


Does it? You've eliminated their forwards in one fell swoop so you're down to the backs. Then take away the Aussies, Kiwis, Sarf Afrikaans, French, Argentinians, Tongans, etc and you eventually have a few English lads to choose from. Is it any wonder the 7s squad often dips into lower-level RU tiers for players?

I'd back almost any SL centre against their RU opposites to be able to create a gap, show & go, draw & pass, run a line, etc. Our fastest wingers can match RU's fastest for pace. Our forwards don't have the mass but they have the power and more pace. Half-back play in the 2 codes is vastly different but I'd back ours for superior handling skills.

And I've yet to see a RU player dodge and weave like Burrow, run and beat men like Tomkins, finish like Hall, accelerate like Atkins, and they rarely bust tackles as RL lads are trained to do.


And there we go. Disregarding the incredible fitness and power of SL players. Your argument loses massive credibility by displaying a blatant ignorance of the physical condition of most top level RL players.

There may be RU lads who are stronger and bigger - but that's for a reason. Ask yourself why there aren't dozens of 6'10" 20+ stone lads in RL?? Why RL lads tend to be much more lean and not as tall?? The simple answer is the sheer speed and intensity of RL and lack of meaningful scrums, rucks/mauls and line-outs demands different conditioning. Bigger is better for RU 15s, not necessarily for RU 7s, or for RL for that matter - and didn't you say we're concerned only with 7s, where size can be a disadvantage? And there may be fast RU players, but there are also fast RL players - or do you for some reason believe RU is full of Olympic standard sprinters?

And as for skill - again, man for man I'd back an RL player. And you should try asking top-level RU players, who have nothing but admiration for RL lads. When RL & RU have mixed sessions it normally goes something like "we were amazed how much smaller the RL lads were, how lean they are and that there aren't really any giants like in RU, but their fitness is outstanding, they're as powerful and pacey as anyone and have outstanding skills".


A player like Hock would be devastating at 7s. I'm not sure whether you think he's not fit enough, fast enough, agile enough or weak in defence? Care to enlighten us?

Hock maybe, but he doesn't turn that great and isn't fast enough IMO, 7s wouldn't suit his style anyway. Crabtree and Burgess no. Willie Manu would be a good shout, a few years back he'd rip up 7s, also think Briscoe with his strength. Someone previously mentioned Yeaman no chance as he's a greedy fo0ker and can't pass for $h1t.
A few from these

Burrow
Tomkins
Watkins
Briscoe
Manu
Roby
Langley
Ablett
Charnley
Bateman
Broughton
Myler

Oh and there's some rare footage on Utube "7s Rugby League at Odsal Stadium 1939" back when it was something

Yeah. I agree.

Regards
Jones-Bishop, Watkins, Hall, Hardaker, Broughton, Charnley, Dixon, Riley, Briscoe, Tomkins.

You need some bigger guys in 7's for some rucking and scrummaging, that's why I picked some big guys like Hock & Crabtree who are also both pretty fit and both explosive runners. You do realise a game is only 14mins long don't you? And that you have 3 subs to use? I'm sure Hock & Crabtree could manage a whole 7 minutes of rugby 7's without collapsing in a heap.

Lovin how RU apologists have erased the memory of the WIgan and Bulls humiliations from their collective memory, and convinced themselves It Would Never Happen Again

I am a fan of both League and Union and have attended 7's events including the Middlesex Sevens on a number of occasions. When Bradford and Wigan won the event it was very different to the IRB sevens events we have seen evolve over the last few years. The Middlesex Sevens was viewed by the top English clubs as a 'jolly' a charity event that only saw a few established players turn out to represent their clubs, the majority of players were squad players or youngsters. In this period it was the invited teams that took it more seriously. If you look at the history of winners in the years between Wigan winning in 96 and Bradford winning in 02 not one top flight English club won. The world sevens game has become massive and England have had some success.
Some of the League players mentioned could make a decent fist of sevens, Tomkins and Burrow leap to mind however, the game is just too quick for the likes of Hock, Langley or any of the League forwards mentioned. On the whole the League forwards are considerably more mobile and athletic than most union forwards however, most union forwards do not play sevens and the League forwards are no way as athletic and mobile as union backs.

The current England 7's team contains 5 forwards over 16 stone. With subs, the larger forwards don't need to play longer than 7 minutes. I think they'd manage just fine. No-ones suggesting they'd walk it like Wigan did, but I don't see why these Union players are suddenly so much faster and more athletic, because I just don't see it when I watch either 15's or 7's.

I think an all league team would make a good fist of it but don't think they'd walk it like Wigan and Bradford did.

So when union reports describe the Wasps team as "the core of the England Sevens team" they were in fact lying? Mmm. I can't remember the Wasps team, tbh, some Lewsey guy was in it but don't think he was ever up to much so I suppose they could be making it up. The Bulls final starting team included such luminaries as Feeley and Sewerby so I can see how the core of the England Sevens team would struggle against the likes of them



I also do remember, because Henry Paul was in it, that the Gloucester team we beat in the earlier rounds supposedly contained a few England Sevens stars.


Or, it isn't. Unless you can show me some evidence that the forwards mentioned in the post above have blinding pace?

Sorry, but I'm not convinced at all.

Is that possible?

If anyone is a fan of Rugby League, it would surely be implausable that s/he would not see the Union game as anything but pretty dire, on the whole.

I played both union and league on and off for 25 plus years. Both league and union when I was younger and just union in my dotage (that tells you the differences between the two from a physical standpoint). I watch Super League live and English union internationals both home and away and know many other league fans who do also (travelling to Rome, Paris or Dublin may have a bearing on that though). I watch everything I can on the tv regarding both.
I see them as two totaly different sports offering different kinds of enjoyment. I take as much pleasure as watching a league player crashing through two tackles and offloading for a try as i do watching a rolling maul.

Can't say I'm with you on that one mate!

Is a rolling maul the one where fat blokes just push against each other?

I think your getting confused with Wednesday night at the Blue Oyster Bar.

It the big where the super athletic backs stand about bored. I have never been as bored on a rugby pitch as when I went from 2nd Row in RL to Centre in RU.

"It's the first time I've been cold for seven years. I was never cold playing rugby league." - Jonathan Davies.

Please tell me that this is a glorious return of Dutoni...

Data coming out from BBC and Sky would suggest it is far more common place than you think.

Bloody hell, there's a blast from the past.

What happened to that Dutoni?

I also seem to remember somebody who fought the rest of the world for hundreds of posts about what constitutes a forward pass. Is he still around?

and a lot of people sit and watch a lot of rubbish on TV...

He got permanently banned for some reason. I think it was because his trolling became too much, the bites too big, and some simpletons on Other Sports were put out of their misery.

I'm sensing him on this thread however...

It's the perversion of mankind, just look at what the most popular things are:

Food - McDonalds
Sport - soccer
TV - Reality shows
Music - pop

Mankind's history is littered with the popularity of absolute e!

7s in reality is a social event. About 25 of us go to Dubai 7's every year and most only see a few minutes of the rugby

Obviously not on the Gold Coast, about 25 people there at last week's 7's.

What's "this"? Rugby Union 7's?