Cant argue with the "wrongdoing" at the time regarding Keighley, they had earned their shot at the "big time".
However, at present, that is not the key issue.
The "game" has to decide where it wants to be in 5,10,20 years time and how to get there.

IF we close the doors to "expansion" and bin off Catalan, Toulouse and Toronto and tell them to go and do their own thing, would that be a positive for RL is either the UK, France or North America or, for the game as a whole ?

It's all about investment into the sport.

IF Toronto was to become a major force in SL and be the catalyst to the sport putting down proper roots in North America, having one less European club in SL would be a very small price to pay and if done properly, with some serious additional revenue coming into the game then, where is the problem.

Supporters of lower end SL and top Championship clubs will feel aggrieved that their club is being wronged but, a vibrant, prosperous sport has to be preferable to having 20 or so heartland clubs struggling to make ends meet and following a sport with less profile than womens netball.

We are so far behind Football, Rugby Union and cricket (and still losing ground) that something does have to be done or, we have to accept that we are a small time sport only enjoyed by middle aged blokes from former pit towns and eventually, we mat have to revert to amateur or semi pro status.
This might not be the end of the world for some but, personally, I always thought that RL was far, far, better than that.

I agree with this. I really don't see why Budgiezilla has to throw around "expansion / football lover" (where the latter came from is only his guess) as its some sort of put-down.

I'm a fan of the sport first and foremost. I have my personal views on the state of the sport and I have my personal views on what I think needs to be done to address those issues. I've worked in marketing for a long time, and I've also worked with professional sports clubs, so I come from at least some position of experience.

I know my views don't always meet universal agreement, which is sort of what makes internet forums what they are, but I'm happy to put my reasons out there. If I felt that this sport could prosper by focusing its efforts in the heartlands, then I'll be happy, but my view is that the realities of modern sport don't allow that. Modern professional sport relies too heavily on television and commercial revenue, and we simply don't provide the audience that businesses want to (or at least, want to pay to) reach - that harms commercial income coming directly into the sport, and it harms our value to TV broadcasters. Yes, Keighley got shafted, but that was more than two decades ago. The realities of professional sport have moved on at a pace far greater than we have.

What I want is to see the best players possible, in the best facilities possible, and where those players are earning a fair income from their efforts. At the moment, we don't offer that. It's why we aren't attracting and retaining top talent, it's why clubs still aren't able to invest in facilities and why we have a salary cap that is around £1m less in real terms than it was in 1999.

The best way to address that in my view, given that the heartlands clubs clearly can't market themselves appropriately, is to tap into new audiences and new markets. Whilst America does represent a leap of faith, it is currently one of few viable options that we have.

"I agree with this. I really don't see why Budgiezilla has to throw around "expansion / football lover" (where the latter came from is only his guess) as its some sort of put-down."

Sorry, I'll stop it now.....

Well done Keighley....attracting 5 gates of over 5k for games against Bradford (9 miles) and Halifax(12 miles).....outstanding work.......but in terms of expansionism, as much use as a chocolate tea-pot



What type of expansionism do we want......?
a/ Bigger TV deals and sponsors with very little substance and youth development and average crowds of 5k
b/ Youth development and more local interaction but with crowds in the 3/4k region?
c/ Billionaires throwing cash at the game but with no plan other than "if they watch it once they'll be hooked"?

Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away

Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away

Quote ="Tigerade"Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away'"

Quote ="Tigerade"Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away'"

By the time Toronto play their first match in Canada in 2018 on May 5th half of their supporters will have lost interest!

There is a reason for it though. It means that they will be playing potentially 2 to 4 less games than all the other Championship teams! Ergo, less injuries, blank weekends for recovery, less expense etc. giving them a definite advantage in their push for promotion.

I'd be surprised if any of the UK teams would be allowed to do this.

Quote ="Tigerade"Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away'" So Fax have no jet lag excuse for this game. Wonder what the excuse will be when Toronto put 50 past them.

Quote ="Tigerade"Looks like Toronto might have another "home" game here in blighty in 2018:- https://www.halifaxrlfc.co.uk/article/5 ... fpack-away'" So Fax have no jet lag excuse for this game. Wonder what the excuse will be when Toronto put 50 past them.

The difference in budgets that the two clubs operate under? And it would be a valid one.
Not that I think Fax will lose by 50 but it's not even remotely a fair competition so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?

Should do what my club does most seasons. And get knocked out after 1 or 2 games.

And your right about now uk club being allowed to do it. Just as no uk Championship club would be allowed near Super Leagues magic weekend.

This is great news! Means I can watch the game without having to socialise with Leigh fans at the blackpool bash

Regards

King james

You're wrong. Look at the crowds we were getting at the time (93 -96). Keighley were getting favorable crowds at the time. They were also the first club that was behind the razzmataz that became commonplace in RL. Music after tries, things for kids to do, making a day out at a game.
Given the lost there SL place, to a side that didn't have its own grounds and we're getting crowds of less than a 1000, but we're in a city. Yes they got every right to be a
Agreivied by what happened.

What you need is heartland clubs as well as expansion clubs, together making a go of it. With it being equal footing and rules for both.

Personally, if a club doesn't want to enter a Cup then I don't see why they should be forced to. I would be surprised if it was mandatory although smaller clubs potentially have a chance for some extra exposure/revenue from it, hence why they probably enter.

LIKEWISE !

you wont be missed

Keighley got 5 gates over 5k in a decade.....I'd take New York, London, Paris, Munich.......

over a pit village any day of the week, especially one that's a 9 iron away from Bradford and Leeds.......
...we often wonder why we're ignored as a northern pastime and the stance that keighley were better for the game than the Broncos is exactly why....there are no better examples of NIMBY'S than Yorkshire folk in relation to RL.......if the game is the "life blood" of the region then it would be thriving at amateur level....it is't....chasing a 1.8 million cheque to then run a side that will cost 4 million and hope the 2.2 million will come from fans isn't a viable business plan....and Cougarmania wouldn't deliver half the needed funds......so you'd have another bottom tier side struggling to stay up and playing out of a hole ground......and wonder why the rest of the country couldn't give a flying one.

Toronto are on shaky ground year 2.....if they don't buy their way to SL in 2018 then the wheels may well come off completely, but I'd have them all day every day over "traditional" clubs with not a pot to pee in.....because Keighley failing isn't news, but Toronto is!

Calm down, you expansion loving Penus !!!

Paris were hardly a success. What 2 years, a couple of gates over 10,000, down to less than 3,000.

And I never said Keighley were better than London. What I said was I understood why they were aggrieved. London didn't exactly work out well. And till they have there own ground, they will struggle financially.

You actually think the rest of the country give a toss about who plays RL. I've said in this and other threads. Until we get a proper international calender, and get more intrest with regards international RL. People aren't going to care. The only reason RU is on more people's radar is because they have a proper international calender. Where the games are known years in advance. Until we do that we will always be in a losing battle with regards the media. So we aren't on people's radar.

Toronto is an interesting one, but I'm fairly sure that if they don't go up franchising will be brought back. But if Toronto fail, who other than RL supporters are going to care. As you said the general public don't care. So weather it's Keighley, Wakefield or Toronto, Toulouse they won't care. I now, as I'm the only one in my family who follows RL. And people in my family didn't even know Catalans had a team, let alone Toronto.

Great debating skills there



As low as 500 I believe........but the pres releases when SL started citing teams in the English and French Capitals was far more likely to be noticed on Fleet Street than a new name for pit village rugby featuring Dewsbury, Featherstone, Keighley and other places that nobody outside of Yorkshire knew even existed!

Toronto failing would be yet another blow for expansion, with the "traditionalists" lining up to say "I told you so". and to be fair, IF they were to fail, those people would be right.
There has to be some longevity to the plight of ANY RL club and a 3-4 year plan, based on attaining SL status isn't good business, whether it be a pit village or a metropolis.

The maths are simple...to be a viable RL club in the professional ranks of SL you need a 10,000 average gate and if you are "renting" a stadium, then 11k is the target.
Wire, Saints, FC, Leeds and the pies are the clubs that deliver at present.....Castleford and Catalans are close, but the rest aren't delivering. Well meaning owners like O'Neill, Hudgell, Davy, Hughes and Beaumont are good to have, but the reality is they back "yoyo" clubs who dwell at the bottom half of the table or in the 2nd tier and with the return to relegation any chances of "building" both on and off the park are again gone and it's all about avoiding the drop....I wonder what will happen once toronto get up......will they close the door behind them.

Even though Toronto have had some help from the RFL (extending the league 1 salary cap, changing the way league 1 promotion etc). The way they started in the lowest league gives them a solid base. It's helped them build the brand. And show people in the city the game and club.
I don't think that the way the fixture list been done this year helps them. But if they go up no one can really argue against them as they would have done it the right way.
Funny enough to see where Toronto are, we need them to have a bad season where they really struggle. Then we'll see if crowds are going to stick with them etc.

I've said all along, to build a strong RL it's not about expansion v heartlands. It's about both moving together. Growing together, same rules for everyone. Accepting each other. Both need each other,