As much as i agree that the likes of Johnstone and Jowett at Wakefield have shown lots of potential, i think it's a poor do when we talk up 18/19 year old kids up as internationals, we are all guilty of it, as fans, let's leave the kids to develop and not throw them straight into an international team on the back of a few good games for their clubs.
If they are good enough then they will still be good enough in 2/3 years time, and despite how good they are they are not bound to have developed mentally or physically by 18.
They have potential yes, but let them develop before talking them up.

And can Wakefield really claim to have "produced" Danny Brough? yes he was at their academy, but developed in the national leagues at Dewsbury, York and Cas,and also played a major role for Hull before signing for wakey, i wouldn't say that was "producing" a player as such.

And to answer the question upthread, no, of course Sam Tomkins shouldn't have an automatic place; no-one should. Obviously, it's contingent on him showing full fitness and decent form for his club first, as it would be for any player. As a Wigan fan, I am frankly a bit worried about him after such a long injury, some players are never quite the same after such a lengthy lay-off. But if he is playing OK, it's hard to imagine he won't be in the starting 13.

My original comment was about Widdop, and the assumption that on his current form (and I haven't seen his last couple of games, where I gather he was pretty good) merits an automatic place.

Very funny, almost 62 - 0 funny.

nothing is THAT funny

I haven't watched Widdop but as others have said, Bennett will hold the NRL based contingent in higher regard from the start so we best get used to that.Its more a matter of who will partner Widdop as to whether he will be selected imo, not saying thats right, just the way it is likely to be.Just as others are coming up with names in the front row who are playing well when the Burgess brothers are not in best form, they are nailed on too in the Bennett regime.

61 is funnier. That's how many years it's been since Warrington won a league title



But anyway back to England fringe players...

Does playing for a teams academy side not count then now? It was obvious in that season when they ran that great Leeds team so close and lost out in the grand final that he was a player with a massive future...he's obviously had issues right the way through his career which is why he took a bit longer to break in at the top level...I watched that academy side home and away and it was pretty obvious then Broughs ability...

You really are the dogs at times.

Personally I can't think of a more legitimate claim for producing a player but then seeing it from your side it would mean most of the recent Shudds teams were "produced" by Wakefield



Still following you're criteria then we produced Ryan Atkins, Henry Paul, Ryan Hudson, Amor, Brett Ferres and Jamie Rooney. I'll take that if you want?

Lucky for you Russell will be playing for Scotland. Try doing some research before writing players off.

you are right, it is lucky for me. I want to see England win the thing.

Whats the over/under going to be for Scotland v Aus/NZ +40?

Though im sure they know all about Russell after his stellar NRL career.

Hardacher
Manfredi
Watkins
Reed
Hall
Tomkins
Widdop
Graham
Hodgeson
SBurgess
Currie
Bateman
O'loughlin

GBurgess
TBurgess
Roby
Walemsly

At present, I'd go with this. However, this could be re-arranged to bring in Tomkins if he warrants a position, I've brought in Joel Tomkins in place of Brett Ferres as I feel he's far too expensive, he's a penalty whore.
Hardaker, McGilvray, Cudjoe, Watkins, Hall. Brown, Widdop, G Burgess, Roby, Graham, O'loughlin, J Tomkins,
S Burgess. Subs, Hodgson, T Burgess, Currie, Bateman.

I'm not a lover of Jack Reed, but I also feel Bennett is so I can see a probable change with Cudjoe.

So many things can change between now and the Four nations which makes it hard to predict a line up. We'll have to see how Tomkins goes on his return before calling that one and I'm sure we'll see well established players like Hall and Watkins find some form before the seasons out. If all goes well and we had a good group of form players going in to the tournament I think our best team looks something like-

Tomkins
McGillvary
Watkins
Reed
Hall/Manfredi (that's a real tough one currently and could go either way)
Widdop
Gale (he needs to find his best form again though)
Graham
Hodgson
Hill
Currie
S Burgess
O'Loughlin (I can't believe I've seen people leave him out after last years performances)

Subs
G Burgess
T Burgess
Bateman
Clark

That's as strong an England side as I can remember for a long time. There are some very good players not in that 17 like Hardaker, Walmsley, Roby etc and that highlights the strength in depth which is building. A lot of people will call their 17's and won't agree with other people's choices but that just highlights the options that have built up.

I like that 17. Bateman is a good option on the bench cos he can cover in the centres if there's an injury in the backs.

its our last chance before the world cup to look at those halves. Im not sure i would introduce anyone new at this point unless they were demanding a shirt. I dont think Gale is doing that right now.

(though saying that Widdop has had plenty of time to take ownership of his shirt and hasnt really done so)

Gale's the weakest link. Browns the most skillful player in the comp and deserves a crack Chris Hill is unplayable, I forgot him and our pack looks World Class. Shame we haven't got another Cente of the ilk of Watkins.

let it go man! seek help.

If it isn't somebody new then it's Widdop and Smith and even as a Wigan fan I can't remotely see how Smith can warrent an England spot on this years form (and last years). The other option from last year then is George Williams but he's not played much this year due to injury and is still raw (although a fabulous talent). I'd have him in the squad if he finds last years form but him and Widdop are a bit similar for me.

We'll be looking at picking three halves in the squad I'd imagine and aside from Widdop it all feels pretty open. I'd say Williams, Smith, Gale, Brown, Mellor, Sneyd and even Richie Myler will all feel like they have a shot. I could see Betts having an influence in any decision so Brown must be a fair chance.

I've never rated Myler much, but it would be churlish to deny he's going well at the Cats. So he is at least a half in form. Right now, anyway.

No, you can't have it both ways - if we didn't produce Brough then we did produce Atkins for example - I'm only following your logic.

I'd put Johnstone ahead of all three of those wingers - but hey.

Anyone who wouldn't put Chris Hill in England's 17 needs serious help

I'd go with all of this except I'd have Roby in their over Clark. Whether he starts is another question, but there'll be no drop in quality when either hooker comes off, which is great to see.