I can't see the problem.
Why is it a problem if players want to play for a team they qualify for?

It's been very entertaining. If you want to build a sport get people interested first. They've certainly done that.

As for Wales, I'm not sure the "oh well they are Australian" cuts it any more. Bring from Oz doesn't make you a great player.
Effectively Italy and USA have put a team together that have never played together and would never be anywhere near an Aussie rep team yet they beat the Welsh team that have been building for a number of years.
Nothing to do with the Aussies in the team.

How many of the current RoI squad play in the RoI? That’s right, its nada…… Nothing. In the last 12 months more players from clubs in Russia and the Ukraine and ‘no current club’ were called up by the RoI side than those playing for clubs in the RoI. Their last squad included players from those bastions of Irishness Chatham, Solihull, Harrow, Falkirk, Glasgow, Pontefract and Blackburn.

The job of the World Cup isn’t to deliver growth to these countries. If you think it is and that’s the standard you are holding it to then ‘CRM man with ideas above his station’ is probably the right description of you and I can see why the RFL and London basically ignored you.

The world cup was never meant to be a panacea. Now your doom-mongering and negativity surrounding crowds has blown up in your face, you are setting up a straw man regarding who the players are (which you even needed to make up a narrative about Clint Newton to fit. Which was weird when you think about it. You completely made up a story about the first years of Clint Newtons life to try and prove your point.) and now moving on to holding the WC to an impossible standard so you can in some way claim it as a failure. There are only two reasons you would do this. You are a troll despite your years of denial, and you spend a large part of your life sat on your own, on your computer trying to wind people up who are half the world away, or you think if you get lucky and one of your ‘negatives’ gets some traction in some misguided attempt to retain some sort of credibility.

Either way, you are a busted flush.

I think the Canada/USA rivalry will be more like Aus/NZ in coming years.
They have a longstanding rivalry in Rugby Union in which Canada pretty much always kicks US (that is relevant because the League/Union communities are very close in both countries).
The Canadian League people are working very hard to get over the Tomahawks, and the Tomahawks are very keen to not let that happen, so playing 3 tests every year between the countries will drive both to keep developing as rapidly as possible.
Canada are competitive with USA at the International level (domestic players of course) after just a few years, which is remarkable.
They had completely opposite development paths, with the US starting with David Nui introducing his workmates to the game in Friday afternoon 'Scrimage sessions' and the game developing organically from there, while Canada started with some experienced Union players getting together a side to play against USA and a comp developing later so they could learn the skills - but both development paths are working for them.

Bloody hell, Canada is the worlds 11th biggest economy, a country of 35million people, it is by no means insignificant.

Ouch.

A bit harsh, possibly. But it's true that Gutterfax has been spending too much time trying to bring about a focus on this as a negative. Completely needless. Nobody cares except Harris, who uses it as an excuse for his own failings as a coach.

Anyway, onwards and upwards. I'm really looking forward to the PNG game.

so Wales the first team to exit the world cup, very very disappointing from them, as the joint host nation and will the work that has gone into them over the last few years...opportunity missed



well done USA... bit of sour grapes from harris in his after comments, hope the USA winning can spark up abit of interest in the game over there.. only 3k followers on twitter though at moment!

Alas poor Smokey TA, if you're going to try and throw a personal insult, try and make it accurate....neither ignored me and whilst one promoted me, the other couldn't afford me.

As for blowing up in my face..........I fail to see any posts of mine predicting failure. I questioned the reluctance to produce actual figures and I still find it using that it takes double counted double headers to make you feel al warm and fuzzy inside.......wembley and Cardiff will be the biggest difference between 2008 and 13.......long term legacy planning it ain't!
Looks like my projection of 360k may get beaten by 10% at best......that's 20% shy of their target......hardly worthy of a call to the bomb squad

others tell a different story.

The fact you have needed to invent an attendances of 22.5k so you are only 10% away shows just how much nonsense you predicted. Even when you twist and fudge the figures you are still predicting yourself to be at least 10% away. Which is why you have moved on to simply lying about Clint Newton

Why is he lying about Newton? Did you know Clint as a toddler?

No, that's why I didn't make up a story about him.

So, you don't know if it's true or not then?

Yet you pull me for supposed story telling......Hmmm, very level headed of you

......

FACT: The RFL described me as "exactly the type of person we need to promote the game in London"....I hardly count that as being ignored.
FACT: A figure of somewhere in the region of 40% of what I was currently was earning was quoted....I regret with every ounce of my being that I didn't take the pay cut!

Feel free to contact IL and question either of these statements.....do you want his personal email address of mobile number?

As for Newton, I took the "timeline" of his birth from an old episode of the footy show where he explained the circumstances of his birth...he was in Australia a matter of weeks after his birth.....I have no idea if he was there permanently or if he was just brought home to "do the family rounds"....I wasn't aware that his mother actually lived in the USA.....have you evidence that she resided there permanently?

As for the crowds...I was the first to say that there were about 575,000 seats available given the venues...I said then that 360k would be the number....it may well get to 400k, making me 10% out....I have never predicted failure, I have questioned the release of information. I have never said the RLWC would not make money......what I have said and I stand by it, is that it could have been done a whole lot better.

Wembley and Cardiff will deliver the largest chunk of "increase".....remove the DH events and give me a tournament average then we'll discuss the merits of this RLWC and its LEGACY.

nobody is interested in your childish bragging, twisting and turning negativity or this new attempt for you to change the argument. You were wrong are being proven wrong and are a busted flush.

Jack Newton was a world top 10 golfer.
I don't know what happens with UK golfers who make the top flight, but Australian golfers have to move to the US and play the US tour for at least half the year and train for a good part of the rest. Most of them don't even return for the big Australian tournaments.
Having said that, I do remember Jack as one of the one's who travelled back fairly often, and unlike most of them, he moved back to Australia when his career was on the skids. He probably made several trips to and from Australia every year. He played the European tour as well.

So you admit to being 100% wrong in your assertion that I was ignored? All you have is personal insults when anyone gets under your skin by making a comment you disagree with and who won't bow to your inane internet bullying tactics.....it's a ing forum TA, we're supposed to have differing opinions.


would require a modicum of proof for that to happen.....and you splitting hairs over Newton being a few weeks or a couple of years old takes you nicely away from territory you were uncomfortable in.....

No I meant what I said, no-one is interested in you bragging about how much you earn or that you have Ian lenegans phone number. I meant exactly what I said and have no interest in your Ian lenegan straw man and I'm pretty sure no-one has any interest in us having a tit for tat argument about who told who what.

I have no problem with any one having a difference of opinion, simply those who lie, make things up and twist and fudge to either troll or push an agenda that get called out when they show it. If you have a problem with being called on what you are doing don't do it.

And no you are wrong (again) there is no onus on me to disprove your claim, it is entirely on you to prove it. You have already admitted you had no idea and simply guessed on a half remembered quote from a tv show years ago because it fit your bias. You have already admitted you lied whether Clint Newton lived there for a minute a year or a decade.

FYI however long Clint Newton lived in America for he has publicly stated he has been in talks with them since the last millennium and would have done for the last decade if it wasn't for injury.

You accused me of being ignored....I simply countered with fact. You dislike this, so frame it up as bragging. You really do resort to personal insults when you get uncomfortable don't you!


You patently do have a problem with differing opinions as I am now a Troll and am pushing an Agenda.....as for being called on it, as I have alluded to earlier, proof would be helpful to your stance that I lied.


It's a tiny part of the debate.....Newton is as Australian as vegemite as well you know and nobody has disproved my recollection of him being in Australia within a matter of weeks anyway. You are pretty good at focussing on a minor issue to deflect away from your uncomfortable squirming over the bigger issue.


Good for him.......it doesn't change the fact that he is one of 50 players in 9 teams at this world cup who were actually born in the country he is representing......and highlighting the RoI soccer team is yet another desperate attempt to deflect away from the issue under discussion.

As I said, I have no interest in your Ian lenegan straw man. You have already been advised that it it isn't up to me to prove you wrong it's your assertion, you prove it. Nobody will care but the onus is on you.

If anyone is focussing on the minor and ignoring the bigger picture it's you with your inane and pointless fixation on which country a baby exited a vagina. It's irrelevant. I don't care where people are born its a small world these days, people move.

If you are that dumb to wonder why Places like the pacific islands, home nations, Italy and the USA have strong cultural and ancestral links with Australia, England and New Zealand then we would need a new word for your idiocy.

It seems this in your new bone though, now your whinging complaining and criticisms of crowds now look stupid this is the new argument you are hiding behind.

The funny thing is that it is a dumb, irrelevant and frankly a little bigoted criticism of the WC you are hiding behind that actually distracts from a legitimate issue with the game. You have talked yourself into this nonsensical invented problem you have missed the great big steaming obvious problem.

so basically you accuse me of something and a) I am not allowed counter the accusation and b) you don't have to back up your accusation with proof. It is a truly strange world you live in buddy.




PEOPLE MOVE! That is the sole basis of your defence of the farcical nature of this RLWC when it comes to the number of ringers on show? Stranger and Stranger




Hey...you brought up the RoI soccer team and I have heard elsewhere that the Greek Olympic Basketball team are all American, but I have yet to see an example of more ringers in a supposed "world" event as is evident at RLWC 2013. If the likes of Chase being a naturalised Brit were the norm, then fine, that happens in other sports, but 2 Scots, 2 cook Islanders, 9 Welshmen, 2 Italians and not one Irishman out of a possible 120 players at 12.5% is a ing farce.....there's cultural links and there is straight forward window dressing.


I happily continue to post in the crowd threads.....this thread isn't about crowds.....which now you mention are tracking at 11% less than RLWC 2008 after 13 games





what's that? That RL is basically controlled by 30 pro clubs in 2 leagues and no matter how many millions fat Nigel et al glean from the RLWC, normal selfish service will be resumed come February?

As for bigoted criticism....I fail to see how me decrying the fact that in a 14 "country" competition, the countries ranked 1-7 by the RLIF deliver 89.5% of ALL the players taking part can be seen as bigoted......it's a farce is what it is.

You do not get to decide who is from what country, your opinion on whether someone is Scottish enough is so far passed irrelevant the dictionary people are sat thinking of a new word to describe just how unimportant it is.

You say there are no Irishmen in the Ireland squad you are demonstrably wrong there are 24, by the standards of pretty much every single sport.

Also they aren't ringers, ringers would be someone like Adam Mcdougall brought into the Scottish RU side because they couldn't produce a decent centre or Kevin Peiterson coming over to the uk specifically to qualify for England because he couldn't get a gig in SA. These are players who qualify for Ireland playing for Ireland.

If you don't think Clint Newton is American fine, it's not important, your views on Clint Newtons heritage are no more important or worthwhile than Bernard Mannings, Clint. Newton would qualify for America in pretty much every sport there is, as he does Rugby League.

Irrelevant as to what I believe constitutes a Scot......I have purely questioned the number of "heritage" players at this RLWC. Australia are a team at this RLWC, so it would be fair to expect there would be at least 24 Australian born players at the tournament........I'd hazard a guess that if you asked any sports fan what they though of there actually being 116 (close to 5 squads worth and 34.5% of all the players) they'd think it was farcical.
Rugby League doesn't have a global presence that is strong enough to support a truly global tournament, but rather than accept this and showcase the talent they do have in a Tri-nations type tournament, they allow 264 players out of 336 to come from the four countries that have a professional team.
The AFL world tournament is only slightly more of a sham, although I do believe the Holders, IRELAND was actually made up of a team born in Ireland.......go figure.



Again, the fact that the sport needs to have an Ireland team, in the hope it will be taken more seriously as a "world" game shows the ineptitude of the governing bodies in how to actually grow the game. Ireland (sic) finished 5th last time out......I see they've kicked on massively since then




Irrelevant....again! I haven't said the qualification rules are wrong, I have said the entire premise of this RLWC is wrong.



Clint Newton qualifies for the USA through him being born there....I don't believe I ever disputed this, but you have a talent for posting comments like that, which are designed to make it look like the target of your affection has actually said something they haven't.....it generally happens when you are feeling uncomfortable.

I have no issue with heritage players....I have a massive problem with squads full of them...if you don't, then you really do see the sport through a myopic lens, because in general, sporting fans look upon this RLWC as a bit of a joke other than for the 3 top teams who were bolted on for the semis since 1954!

Yes, all this is irrelevant.

We dont have an Irish team in there because we need an Irish team, we have an Irish team in there because Irish people are playing for Ireland. The fact you dont think they are Irish enough is a stupid as it is irrelevant. The same as we have an American team because American people put together an American team and qualified for it.

The RoI national football team was ranked 6th in 1993, they are ranked 60th now. in 1990 they made the WC quarter final, they havent even qualified for a tournament in 11 years.......I see they've kicked on massively since then



If you think the entire premise of a world cup is wrong? You think that playing international sport to crown a world champion is wrong? Weird.

Your view on who is a ‘heritage’ player and who is a ‘real’ player are irrelevant. You don’t get to define other peoples nationality.

And considering that we had no more than 5 teams in a world cup until 1995, cheers for your noticing the fact that 3 of those were bolted on for the last 4.





Other people would have missed that brilliant insight, but not you. Thats why you get the big bucks.

The stock answer when personal insults have failed......
FACTS remain that the top 7 ranked countries provide 91% of all the players at this tournament. I believe it is still possible for Italy to meet Australia in the Final......feel free to tell me how normal/acceptable it would be to have a world cup final contested by 2 teams of 17 players, with 2 Kiwis and 32 Australian born players





...I'd go back to personal insults if I were you buddy.

not a stock answer at all. Simply the correct one. When what you are saying is irrelevant, it gets called irrelevant. When you are being a troll you get called a troll.


That this annoys you so much simply shows what a success the WC has been. You can stay in your state of incandescent apoplexy, let it carry on eating at you, because as the fact that you have successfully chased everyone else away from this thread shows. No-one else cares.

No...normally a debate involves an exchange of views, but you disagree with me (even though you know I am right) and therefore you call me names...




No again. I am thrilled that the crowds have turned up but I still believe the number of heritage players devalues the comp and it's potential legacy....France, PNG and Wales are 3 of the better countries when it comes to home born players.....they are 72% born in the country they represent....yet teams like Scotland and Italy (8%) are reaping the rewards of the heritage rule but adding no long term legacy. You know I am right, so you lay a smoke screen of attendances to hide the fact that I have a point.

I never questioned attendances by the way.....I questioned the organisers ability to get press releases out that were coherent and I still do.......
to date, after 14 games, we are 11k down on 2008 BTW......At a fiver a ticket I'd temper some of that back slapping for now