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| Quote ="Saddened!"The responses to the presentation so far just show how divided the sport is currently. Those who are traditionalist and want the sport to stagnate and go back to semi pro to protect the 'as is' and their own club's current status. And those that want the sport to move on and improve through attracting new investment, even if it means some clubs being left being.
Sitting and doing nothing is not an option here. Promotion and relegation has added nothing to the sport and it needs to be gone as soon as possible. The IMG proposals are a halfway house, they encourage clubs to improve to achieve the higher gradings whilst leaving the door open for clubs that do significantly improve. The bit about expanding the league if they can fill it with A clubs is a good one, plenty for aspirational Championship clubs to go for.'"
Only a wealthy backer in the championship would have any chance on promotion, and then where does the backer eventually say, I ain't spending any more ? This is a lost cause. Thankfully for Leigh, Degsey has pumped a lot of money in, and without the grand final this weekend, Leigh might not qualify for a top Cat B licence, and that's on the back of many saying that Leigh look like a mid Superleague team. TBF - We do need to look at the criteria before we speculate any further.
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| If there is no plan to attract more players to the game, the quality on the field will continue to decline, so some of these proposals will have a lesser impact. This should mainly be about investing in development officers, getting more players in schools and community clubs, but if as is suggested French clubs have to have a minimum number of French players, then English clubs should also have to have the same minimum number of English players.
Franchising was handled so badly last time, then any fan who feels wary of it coming back is fully justified. Struggling to see how scrapping the Magic weekend and making a round of the Challenge cup 2 legs is going to improve things. Can't see the clubs accepting/surviving on 11 home fixtures a year either. If they replace league games with a 9s tournament it has to be hugely successful just to keep income levels steady, there is this implication the hundred is a "success" but it has come at the cost of other parts of cricket, which is the main worry for me.
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| Quote ="Hopie"If there is no plan to attract more players to the game, the quality on the field will continue to decline, so some of these proposals will have a lesser impact. This should mainly be about investing in development officers, getting more players in schools and community clubs, but if as is suggested French clubs have to have a minimum number of French players, then English clubs should also have to have the same minimum number of English players.'"
I will be amazed if the new criteria doesn't involve a lot of discussion around grass roots rugby league, community interaction, academies and overall youth player development.
IMG know what they are doing and they will be well aware that the sport's participation numbers are nowhere near where they need to be if the sport wants to grow and for the overall quality to improve.
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| Quote ="Saddened!"The responses to the presentation so far just show how divided the sport is currently. Those who are traditionalist and want the sport to stagnate and go back to semi pro to protect the 'as is' and their own club's current status. And those that want the sport to move on and improve through attracting new investment, even if it means some clubs being left being.
Sitting and doing nothing is not an option here. Promotion and relegation has added nothing to the sport and it needs to be gone as soon as possible. The IMG proposals are a halfway house, they encourage clubs to improve to achieve the higher gradings whilst leaving the door open for clubs that do significantly improve. The bit about expanding the league if they can fill it with A clubs is a good one, plenty for aspirational Championship clubs to go for.'"
P+R adds another element of interest to the league with something to fight for every week throughtout the year. If you was to look at this season come july the season would be over for at least 4 teams. This would also add to a loss of revenue imo as less will attend for dead rubber games.
They isnt even a wealthy backer waiting to come into Super League let alone the championship. Its a pipe dream to think a club like Batley would get a wealthy backer and come a Cat B club. How can you plan as a Cat B club long term ?
This is a very poor option, the sport has never recovered after the last franchise. They should be putting more effort into bridging the gap between the champ and SL not widening it.
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| Quote ="pmarrow"P+R adds another element of interest to the league with something to fight for every week throughtout the year. If you was to look at this season come july the season would be over for at least 4 teams. This would also add to a loss of revenue imo as less will attend for dead rubber games.
They isnt even a wealthy backer waiting to come into Super League let alone the championship. Its a pipe dream to think a club like Batley would get a wealthy backer and come a Cat B club. How can you plan as a Cat B club long term ?
This is a very poor option, the sport has never recovered after the last franchise. They should be putting more effort into bridging the gap between the champ and SL not widening it.'"
Hull's season was over by July under the current system too. You also played Rovers at least 5 times this season. Something needs to change.
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| How often has the promoted team actually stayed up after being promoted, and how many different clubs have have actually been promoted from the championship? The idea that relegation means it gives the teams at the bottom something to play for for longer doesn't seem to be accurate.
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| Quote ="Jack Burton"How often has the promoted team actually stayed up after being promoted, and how many different clubs have have actually been promoted from the championship? The idea that relegation means it gives the teams at the bottom something to play for for longer doesn't seem to be accurate.'"
Widnes got promoted around 2012 ish? And stayed in SL for about 5 seasons? Apart from that, they seem to just yoyo
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| Quote ="Jack Burton"How often has the promoted team actually stayed up after being promoted, and how many different clubs have have actually been promoted from the championship? The idea that relegation means it gives the teams at the bottom something to play for for longer doesn't seem to be accurate.'"
Of the 12 sides in Super League in 2022, I think only 4 have been ever present in Super League. Many have come up, or been down and come back up.
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| Quote ="Nothus"Hull's season was over by July under the current system too. You also played Rovers at least 5 times this season. Something needs to change.'"
Hulls season was over in February.
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| Quote ="Jack Burton"How often has the promoted team actually stayed up after being promoted, and how many different clubs have have actually been promoted from the championship? The idea that relegation means it gives the teams at the bottom something to play for for longer doesn't seem to be accurate.'"
Hull KR have done it twice, Huddersfield have, Wakefield have, Cas have also managed to stay up and also being relegated twice. Widnes have had sustained periods in the top flight and before the Gateshead merger Hull never actually finished bottom. I believe Salford have also gone down and back up.
So its not pretty accurate to suggest teams just go straight back down.
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| 2 legged game for round 6 of the Challenge cup.
Cant wait until St Helens put 70 points on Keighley in the away leg first before welcoming Keighley to TWS for the second leg.......
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| Quote ="TheWarringtonWolve69"2 legged game for round 6 of the Challenge cup.
Cant wait until St Helens put 70 points on Keighley in the away leg first before welcoming Keighley to TWS for the second leg.......'"
Indeed, ridiculous idea. Anything more than a 3 converted try margin in the 1st leg will be a disaster for ticket sales. In Football you occasionally get a 3-0 overturn in the Champions League but its rare and the clubs that take part in that have thousands on their waiting list wanting tickets.
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| Quote ="TheWarringtonWolve69"A Clubs - St Helens, Wigan, Leeds, Catalans, Warrington, Hull
B Clubs - Hull KR, Huddersfield
Lower B Clubs - Wakefield, Castleford, Salford, Leigh, Toulouse, London, York
With everyone else being C. That's my prediction'"
The criteria laid down by the IMG, though not known yet, will cover a whole range of things including, but not exclusively on pitch sucess.
A lot of emphasis will be put on such things as finances i.e. debt and long-term sustainability of the clubs. Other criteria will cover such things as home attendances, plus off field activities such as pre match entertainment and clubs' ability to attract good sponsorship. Plus having a good youth set up.
Hull Kr are in a good position regarding long term sustainability. Having recently purchased their own ground and having some exiting long-term plans for ground and surrounding land development. They also get good crowds and have a decent youth set up. Plus, probably the best set up regarding pre match facilities in super league i.e. Craven streat.
Whether that will be enough in the short term to obtain a grade A remains to be seen. But in my opinion, they certainly have as good a chance as most of the others, especially as like I said. There will be a whole host of things likely to be considered as well as on field successes.
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| I just think you have to pick your poison and go for it.
Franchise or P&R, both have positives and negatives but mixing both will please few.
For me the issue with franchises last time was the cloak and dagger aspect and the fudging of the criteria.
How many clubs actually improved their facilities or made substantial progress last time.
The top league does not need equal fixtures either if it is running a playoff format at the end of the year, so. you could run a more nfl style system meaning if you match the minimum stand you are in.
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| This is what Martin Samuel, Chief Sports Writer of the Daily Mail thinks about the nonsense:-
It is a horrific plan. Slices at the heart, and soul, of sport. It’s an idea that nobody with any feeling for athletic competition should countenance, the blueprint of accountants and money men, masquerading as a vision.
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| The Daily Mail and people who write for it are poisonous scum. They have no interest in Rugby League other than to kick it, no interest in anything which changes the status quo other than to denigrate it.
Their opinions are either invalid or we should take any such criticism as good news, because they are invariably wrong about everything.
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| Quote ="The Ghost of '99"The Daily Mail and people who write for it are poisonous scum. They have no interest in Rugby League other than to kick it, no interest in anything which changes the status quo other than to denigrate it.
Their opinions are either invalid or we should take any such criticism as good news, because they are invariably wrong about everything.'"
The daily mail that had a headline last Saturday saying "At last, a true Tory budget" best not to worry about anything they report
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| Yet many of you Mail haters must admit that he is correct in what he says.
Taking relegation out of the hands of the players and moving the decision to a committee is wrong.
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| Quote ="reffy"Yet many of you Mail haters must admit that he is correct in what he says.
Taking relegation out of the hands of the players and moving the decision to a committee is wrong.'"
Only if you assume relegation is a necessity of sport, an arbitrary cut off point were sports draw a line saying who can play who.
Licencing or Franchising enables leagues to be more flexible if used correctly.
We already have a situation were the best team over the course of 12 months is irrelevant to the title.
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| I've heard a few owners in the past say most SL clubs require at least 13 home games to keep their heads above water, so if that's still the case and they want to cut SL to 22 games a season, then they're going to have to find some extra home games from somewhere, so I assume that's the thinking behind having 2 legged cup games.
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| People didn't like franchising the last time we had it. Went back and found some news reports from when it was ended, and it was referred to as ''the much-maligned franchising system''. It's an interesting insight into the rugby league zeitgeist at the time, people forget. I don't really see that there will be any difference this time.
If you're wanting to increase eyes on the game it will never wash, as it goes against what's ingrained into sporting culture in this country. Stop looking at the US sports model and rugby league in Aus, it does not work over here. Just stop it.
What will most likely happen is that whatever this latest abomination is will be introduced, then after circa 5 or 6 years it will be disbanded amid unrest about things being 'stale' and the game needing 'new direction', and the IMG partnership will be ended early.
Can guarantee it.
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| With rugby league it always feels like a get-rich-quick scheme. Looking for the next magic bullet, the next shortcut to make it big. A new playoff format, a new competition structure, more teams, less teams, more loop fixtures, less loop fixtures, more games against the top teams (remember super 8's? why did we get rid of that?) The list just goes on and on. Remember club call? It's sad looking back at all these numerous different schemes, ultimately fruitless but never destined to make any difference anyway. I've lost count of the different playoff formats, and it starts to eat away at the integrity of the competition after a while.
If it isn't a 'get-rich-quick-scheme' it's like someone putting in place a 6-month phased training plan to get in shape but quitting it after a month. Supposed long-term plans will be made only to be scrapped after short-term implementation.
I feel like Rugby league had a boost from the introduction of super league for 10-15 years, but then it's gradually started to return to it's pre-super league condition, exacerbated by external socio-economic factors.
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler"With rugby league it always feels like a get-rich-quick scheme. Looking for the next magic bullet, the next shortcut to make it big. A new playoff format, a new competition structure, more teams, less teams, more loop fixtures, less loop fixtures, more games against the top teams (remember super 8's? why did we get rid of that?) The list just goes on and on. Remember club call? It's sad looking back at all these numerous different schemes, ultimately fruitless but never destined to make any difference anyway. I've lost count of the different playoff formats, and it starts to eat away at the integrity of the competition after a while.
If it isn't a 'get-rich-quick-scheme' it's like someone putting in place a 6-month phased training plan to get in shape but quitting it after a month. Supposed long-term plans will be made only to be scrapped after short-term implementation.
I feel like Rugby league had a boost from the introduction of super league for 10-15 years, but then it's gradually started to return to it's pre-super league condition, exacerbated by external socio-economic factors.'"
Spot on. If the Monorail man from The Simpsons came round RL would be all over it
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler"People didn't like franchising the last time we had it. Went back and found some news reports from when it was ended, and it was referred to as ''the much-maligned franchising system''. It's an interesting insight into the rugby league zeitgeist at the time, people forget. I don't really see that there will be any difference this time.
If you're wanting to increase eyes on the game it will never wash, as it goes against what's ingrained into sporting culture in this country. Stop looking at the US sports model and rugby league in Aus, it does not work over here. Just stop it.
What will most likely happen is that whatever this latest abomination is will be introduced, then after circa 5 or 6 years it will be disbanded amid unrest about things being 'stale' and the game needing 'new direction', and the IMG partnership will be ended early.
Can guarantee it.'"
Other sports on this country with have P&L actually have a second tier where a sides promoted can actually stay in the top division.
Rugby League does not have this so P&L is a pointless exercise
Nevermind the fact that in Rugby League we have a system where relegation is so horrific that financially it could send clubs into financial Armageddon. P&L is broken and will remain broken as long as the second tier is so devoid of revenue.
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| Quote ="puroresu_boy"Other sports on this country with have P&L actually have a second tier where a sides promoted can actually stay in the top division.
Rugby League does not have this so P&L is a pointless exercise
Nevermind the fact that in Rugby League we have a system where relegation is so horrific that financially it could send clubs into financial Armageddon. P&L is broken and will remain broken as long as the second tier is so devoid of revenue.'"
Just as worryingly. Promotion to the top tier could mean financial Armageddon as well….
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