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| Quote ="Donnyman"Great post. There absolutely isn't the need to panic. the crowds 15 years ago were 9K and that's down to 8K now but Bradford's demise is a big part of that and not a general malaise. If we keep going on about the "old days" being better, and talk about a "current malaise" we will create our own self fulfilling prophecy.
Just getting Bradford right again and relaunching SL2022 with the biggest and most ambitious clubs will do the trick as it's likely a lot of lapsed fans will fancy geting back out for regular live rugby league after this long lockdown.'"
Pearson is correct though in the sense other sports are growing and seeing money pumped into them but rugby league hasn't seen any growth and one could argue the sport has actually got smaller.
Also the way super League is governed needs to change. This continued nonsence letting the clubs call the shots will never work.
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| Quote ="Donnyman"There absolutely isn't the need to panic. the crowds 15 years ago were 9K and that's down to 8K now but Bradford's demise is a big part of that and not a general malaise.'"
Comparing the 3 Major Football codes in the UK over 15 years.....
Superleague 2005 Att: 8.800 - 2019 8,450. 3% down
Premiere League 2005/6 Att: 33,500 - 2018/19 38,102. 13% up
Union top flight. 2005/06 Att: 11,000 2018/19. 14,500 31% up
And before anyone bangs on about "event games" in Union boosting their attendances, that's the bloody point......they're proactive whilst the RFL pay their own wages with Magic Weekend and.....and....er...nope, that's about it.
There is absolutely a need to panic. The game is on less revenue from it's main source and is on a warning from that source to "buck up its ideas". In the meantime, The HULL FC owner is spouting more tripe about other 'quick fixes' less than 4 years after saying that SL taking control from the RFL would deliver a level playing field with Union.
As another poster has said. We're not a national sport, especially at elite level, so the game needs to decide what it wants....but I can assure you, 8 Northern English Teams and 2 French isn't going to get SKY or anyone else parting with more cash.
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| Quote ="orangeman"Comparing the 3 Major Football codes in the UK over 15 years.....
Superleague 2005 Att: 8.800 - 2019 8,450. 3% down
Premiere League 2005/6 Att: 33,500 - 2018/19 38,102. 13% up
Union top flight. 2005/06 Att: 11,000 2018/19. 14,500 31% up
And before anyone bangs on about "event games" in Union boosting their attendances, that's the bloody point......they're proactive whilst the RFL pay their own wages with Magic Weekend and.....and....er...nope, that's about it.
There is absolutely a need to panic. The game is on less revenue from it's main source and is on a warning from that source to "buck up its ideas". In the meantime, The HULL FC owner is spouting more tripe about other 'quick fixes' less than 4 years after saying that SL taking control from the RFL would deliver a level playing field with Union.
As another poster has said. We're not a national sport, especially at elite level, so the game needs to decide what it wants....but I can assure you, 8 Northern English Teams and 2 French isn't going to get SKY or anyone else parting with more cash.'"
This. The game has no vision, no plan and is happy to just carry on as it is.
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| It's funny Pearson talking about mergers.
Didn't Hull F.C contrive a fake Merger of Convenience to keep themselves in Super League ?
I wonder if Pearson will be bold enough to volunteer F.C to merge with K.R & play out of Craven Park under the K.R name ???
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| Well, the KC lease is due to run out
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| Quote ="Hopie"Well, the KC lease is due to run out'"
.
no, its up for re-negotiation, lease is still another 30 year or something like that, same as the football club
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| Quote ="puroresu_boy"This. The game has no vision, no plan and is happy to just carry on as it is.'"
I agree. I went to 20/20 cricket game at Trent Bridge this week. The ground was pretty much full, it was full of families and folk of all ages groups. The pre match was busy with lots to watch on the pitch, with lots of music, pre recored interviews with the captains on the big screen and other cricket news (the day India were bowled out for 7icon_cool.gif. Surely there is a media group that could produce similar short 'programmes' that could be put out at every game, prior to kickoff.
During the game there was lots of entertainment in the form of short bursts of music and replays on the screen. They had the 'flex (muscleman) cam, the dance cam, the bongo (drums) cam etc, where the crowd can interact with the entertainment. It was slick and fun. Again, the ground was nearly full.
I appreciate that cricket is not RL, but there is lots to learn in order to boost crowds and the sport as a whole. It reminded me of the Bulls (Bullmania) at the start of SL and that, in addition to the rugby our sport must be entertaining in order to bring families in. Lots of work to be done. The sport need to be focussed on being more professional and much more entertaining.
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| Quote ="puroresu_boy"Pearson is correct though in the sense other sports are growing and seeing money pumped into them but rugby league hasn't seen any growth and one could argue the sport has actually got smaller.
Also the way super League is governed needs to change. This continued nonsence letting the clubs call the shots will never work.'"
Fair enough on investment and governance, I do however think the fans will be back next season.......
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| Quote ="JTCFJG"I agree. I went to 20/20 cricket game at Trent Bridge this week. The ground was pretty much full, it was full of families and folk of all ages groups. The pre match was busy with lots to watch on the pitch, with lots of music, pre recored interviews with the captains on the big screen......... During the game there was lots of entertainment in the form of short bursts of music and replays on the screen. They had the 'flex (muscleman) cam, the dance cam, the bongo (drums) cam etc, where the crowd can interact with the entertainment. It was slick and fun. Again, the ground was nearly full. I appreciate that cricket is not RL, but there is lots to learn in order to boost crowds and the sport as a whole. It reminded me of the Bulls (Bullmania) at the start of SL and that, in addition to the rugby our sport must be entertaining in order to bring families in. Lots of work to be done. The sport need to be focussed on being more professional and much more entertaining.'"
To an extent Bradford have "Been there and done that" with a matchday experience that was more productive early on, before it ended up being dropped.
I love the 20 20 cricket as a novelty, but it's too soon to call it a success, we have to see whether their early crowds hold up or decline.....
We also have to see how our own new rules appeal to the fans next season when they return. I think the new rules sharpen the games up......
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| Think we need to reinvent with new competitions. This is what cricket does very well. What about addition cup competitions an Eastern and Western Cup as an early season competition. Could all be played as evening games. Combine this with the 2 SL leagues of 10 mid season internationals and magic weekend.
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| Quote ="Leyther14"Think we need to reinvent with new competitions. This is what cricket does very well. What about addition cup competitions an Eastern and Western Cup as an early season competition. Could all be played as evening games. Combine this with the 2 SL leagues of 10 mid season internationals and magic weekend.'"
Sounds quite good if it throws up plenty of SL1 club.v..SL2 club matches?
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| Don't get this sl1 and sl2 stuff. All it is is a rebranding SL and championship whilst getting rid of 4 teams. Need more advertising and things on pre match
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| Advertising and pre-match is fine but more radical change is needed. The SL1 and SL 2 is effectively making 20 full time teams and spreading the money a bit more. Relies on Sky buying in and the top current SL teams not just thinking of themselves. May need an increase in Salary cap also to open opp for more investment from wealthier clubs. Could lead to higher standard in both divisions and be more attractive to NRL players particularly if cap is raised.
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| Quote ="Leyther14"Advertising and pre-match is fine but more radical change is needed. The SL1 and SL 2 is effectively making 20 full time teams and spreading the money a bit more. Relies on Sky buying in and the top current SL teams not just thinking of themselves. May need an increase in Salary cap also to open opp for more investment from wealthier clubs. Could lead to higher standard in both divisions and be more attractive to NRL players particularly if cap is raised.'"
That's all fine and dandy but there isn't enough quality players to fill 20 full time teams, there will be at least half of the SL2 getting mullered week in week out,
there is no different to what we have now, what your asking for is some players to fore go the their jobs to risk playing full time and are the clubs willing to pay out decent wages too and risk the future of the club.
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| Quote ="snowie"That's all fine and dandy but there isn't enough quality players to fill 20 full time teams, there will be at least half of the SL2 getting mullered week in week out,
there is no different to what we have now, what your asking for is some players to fore go the their jobs to risk playing full time and are the clubs willing to pay out decent wages too and risk the future of the club.'"
I don't think it's 20 full time teams at all?
It's 20 clubs coming under the juridstiction of Superleague in which tier one will be professional and tier two will allow any ambitious club's rich owner to spend his money too. so a few pro in tier 2 most semi-pro.....
This does two things, it leaves the RFL with no more than 16 clubs (probably less if some fold) so the "tail cannot wag the dog" on game wide votes, it also leaves the top ten clubs taking most of the SKY money so they can maintain current levels of Superleague salaries.
It may also support maintaining support levels in a way through a full round of loop fixtures. Whatever anyone personally thinks of them if they maximise the attendances and satisfy SKY's thirst to show say Warrington.v. St.Helens twice rather than Leigh.v.Wakefield at all, then he who pays the piper calls the tune.
Those who don't like it I understand, but you will need to come in with a bigger offer than SKY yourself if you prefer a 14 club 26 round league.......
I opened my piggy bank last week and I am nowhere near it...........
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| Quote ="Donnyman"I don't think it's 20 full time teams at all?
It's 20 clubs coming under the juridstiction of Superleague in which tier one will be professional and tier two will allow any ambitious club's rich owner to spend his money too. so a few pro in tier 2 most semi-pro.....
This does two things, it leaves the RFL with no more than 16 clubs (probably less if some fold) so the "tail cannot wag the dog" on game wide votes, it also leaves the top ten clubs taking most of the SKY money so they can maintain current levels of Superleague salaries.
It may also support maintaining support levels in a way through a full round of loop fixtures. Whatever anyone personally thinks of them if they maximise the attendances and satisfy SKY's thirst to show say Warrington.v. St.Helens twice rather than Leigh.v.Wakefield at all, then he who pays the piper calls the tune.
Those who don't like it I understand, but you will need to come in with a bigger offer than SKY yourself if you prefer a 14 club 26 round league.......
I opened my piggy bank last week and I am nowhere near it...........'"
I can see the logic of SL having more clubs under it's umbrella and as you say, this will strengthen their hand when it's time to vote on certain issues.
However, the bottom line is that, there simply isn't enough brass coming into the game and none of the proposed changes make it any more likely.
Whatever the new second tier is called, it's still the second tier and with (very) little money likely to go to the clubs in that division, what we really have here is a method of trying to split the Sky monies into 10, rather than 12.
SL needs to be very careful with this move.
With Sky's hunger to only want "big" games, they could create a very repetitive fixture program, which, rather than generate interest, may have the opposite effect.
It may not be the ideal example but the Scottish Premier League went with 10 clubs, only to find that it wasn't enough and then increased to 12 and it seems ridiculous that when most people complain about "loop" fixtures, we're going to have 2 divisions where clubs play each other a minimum of 3 times (plus cup and play offs), which necessarily means an imbalance in fixtures and it wont be long before "insert name" complain about having had to play someone twice away from home and only once at home and with the new league supposed to be even more competitive, this will surely have an effect on play off places etc.
Lets' face it, if there was enough cash, a 14 club or maybe a 12 club SL, with a balanced fixture program would be the ideal but 10 leave us with all the bits that fans dont like and just how long will it be until there is a further cut in Sky monies and we go to 8 clubs.
A final not of caution is the last major restructure, the 3 x 8 "every minute matters" nonsense.
Be careful what you wish for.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"I can see the logic of SL having more clubs under it's umbrella and as you say, this will strengthen their hand when it's time to vote on certain issues.
However, the bottom line is that, there simply isn't enough brass coming into the game and none of the proposed changes make it any more likely.
Whatever the new second tier is called, it's still the second tier and with (very) little money likely to go to the clubs in that division, what we really have here is a method of trying to split the Sky monies into 10, rather than 12.
SL needs to be very careful with this move.
With Sky's hunger to only want "big" games, they could create a very repetitive fixture program, which, rather than generate interest, may have the opposite effect.
It may not be the ideal example but the Scottish Premier League went with 10 clubs, only to find that it wasn't enough and then increased to 12 and it seems ridiculous that when most people complain about "loop" fixtures, we're going to have 2 divisions where clubs play each other a minimum of 3 times (plus cup and play offs), which necessarily means an imbalance in fixtures and it wont be long before "insert name" complain about having had to play someone twice away from home and only once at home and with the new league supposed to be even more competitive, this will surely have an effect on play off places etc.
Lets' face it, if there was enough cash, a 14 club or maybe a 12 club SL, with a balanced fixture program would be the ideal but 10 leave us with all the bits that fans dont like and just how long will it be until there is a further cut in Sky monies and we go to 8 clubs.
A final not of caution is the last major restructure, the 3 x 8 "every minute matters" nonsense.
Be careful what you wish for.'"
Don't worry. I will, excellent post......
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"
It may not be the ideal example but the Scottish Premier League went with 10 clubs, only to find that it wasn't enough and then increased to 12 Be careful what you wish for.'"
Ken Davey announced 12 clubs next year, Leigh are relegated, and THEN 2X10 clubs for 2022, so nobody could change SL's mind.
Nothing about the other 16 clubs, albeit it appears that is up to Rimmer to sort.
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Ken Davey announced 12 clubs next year, Leigh are relegated, and THEN 2X10 clubs for 2022, so nobody could change SL's mind.
Nothing about the other 16 clubs, albeit it appears that is up to Rimmer to sort.'"
Have they decided how the Sky "cake" will be divided yet.
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| Quote ="Donnyman"Ken Davey announced 12 clubs next year, Leigh are relegated, and THEN 2X10 clubs for 2022, so nobody could change SL's mind.
Nothing about the other 16 clubs, albeit it appears that is up to Rimmer to sort.'"
I suppose Leigh are relegated only if Toulouse don't bottle it ?
It wouldn't be the first time now would it, and to be fair, do any other Championship club (or even Toulouse for that matter) have the infrastructure or financial clout to be in SL ? Do they want it and how much damage has this season done not playing at Home ?
** Expansionists will now have a field day !!** LOL!
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Have they decided how the Sky "cake" will be divided yet.'"
Can only find £5,000,000 awarded to Rimmer to look after his 16 clubs, Not seen a definitive breakdown for SL1 & SL2 just suggestions but probably too soon for such a decision to be made as Davey has only just confirmed the number of SL clubs........AFAIK no confirmation what exactly SL2 will be? Some optimists think it will be a professional competition......
I think no chance as as much money as possible has to go into clubs who will be on TV. IIRC thats 66 matches involving SL1 clubs only?
The whole problem with the last deal was the ££Millions wasted on the second tier comps.
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| Quote ="Snowy"I suppose Leigh are relegated only if Toulouse don't bottle it ? !'"
WHY? Surely Featherstone would go up if they nicked it?
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| Quote ="Donnyman" The whole problem with the last deal was the ££Millions wasted on the second tier comps.'"
Ain't you a treasure.
An individual who purported to follow a third tier side, who has typed out support for Leigh Centurions and Newcastle Thunder - not forgetting York.
The M62ers sure is good for a laugh.
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| Quote ="Ornery Optimist"Ain't you a treasure.
An individual who purported to follow a third tier side, who has typed out support for Leigh Centurions and Newcastle Thunder - not forgetting York.
The M62ers sure is good for a laugh.'"
You forget Toronto for all the £M’s pumped into it to let it go so easily. What investment do Newcastle,York have? There biggest venue next season will be playing Leigh.
Looking at the current recruitment of Leigh, they are way behind times. Plenty time to catch up of course.. Surely they should have been doing it already. No golden spoons in this game.
You’ll get Toulouse up and a media explosion from Sky. Then will come the flop.
Bookmark it.. Leigh already odds on for return to SL.
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| Quote ="atomic" Bookmark it.. Leigh already odds on for return to SL.'"
Bookmarked
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