I was on Row 1 of the upper tier. My ticket wasn't for there, but there was thousands of empty seats so it wasn't hard to move. I've been to the new Wembley 15 times for RL, football and NFL so I know from experience the view I had was far better than behind the sticks in the lower tier. I wouldn't call it "the gods".

I'm sure you were and I'm sure you have. I'm just saying that the vast majority of fans are put off by buying upper tier tickets as they don't think they'll be able to enjoy watching it from that height. I myself have sat in each end, side, corner and elevation at Wembley and the best views I ha was the halfway line half way up the upper tier.

My point is, In a sport where our supposedly working class fan base turn their nose up and grumble at the cost of things making the tickets cheaper and selling more is surely good business sense.

for a family of 4 to go to Wembley behind the sticks this year could cost circa £330. £130 on tickets, £100 on travel and up to £100 on food and drink easy.

£130 on tickets
£60 on fuel
£20 on parking
4x Packed lunch. (£20 if you go to M&S Foodhall)
£30 McDonalds just off M1 below Leicester Forest services

Just saved you £80 there pal.

The problem is they are sold off cheap enough reducing it further won't attract new fans. Or significant add to it on its own.

The challenge Cup could be a domestic 9s tournament all played over a 4 day Bank Holiday with teams from the super league and championship.

Create more of a festival about it over the one weekend loads of different shirts hustle n bustle around Wembley over the weekend social media boosts to attract younger rugby fans in the London area add value for money by one ticket admits to all games. Lots to do outside fans areas have the games played on big screens around London.

It also reduces the number of games played a little which I think helps maybe we could have some kind of origin series yorks v lancs again or just give the players a rest?

Nice idea but, who would want to fork out the cost of a Wembley trip to watch a "nothing" nines competition, when most clubs would send "reserve" sides, to protect their main squad for more important fixtures.

Personally, I'm not sure that 9's has anything like enough "pull" to draw anything close to fill (or half fill) Wembley.

Nor does the full 13 a side with first team players. We wouldn't be having these discussions if it was near capacity.

I'm just thinking out if the box as the one thing most agree with us somthing needs to change but aside from reducing price of tickets no real idea match day entertainment should be a given but what changes are we talking to refresh it?

Alternative ideas play semi n final over the weekend, take the final to Australia.

Isn't the Challenge cup just dead now?

I know it's full of tradition but maybe fans just don't care about it that much these days.

Maybe it's time for something new.

I certainly don't think it's just about ticket prices. If the competition has lost its appeal then cutting the ticket prices won't really make much difference.

It’s just a Mickey Mouse cup now. Just like all other sports domestic cup comps.

However. It gives teams who have no chance of winning super league an opportunity to win something

Correct, I'm always at least interested in going to the CC final and have been loads of times. Wouldn't be bothered in the slightest about a 9s tournament unless for some reason I was already in London and could get a very cheap ticket. Winning it holds no prestige like the CC does and like you say, guaranteed it would be reserves too. Not sure I'd even watch on TV to be honest, not that BBC would give airtime to a full tournament like that anyway.

you would say that having been well beaten in the last couple of years

Halifax picked up about 1/3 of £400k for their SF final appearance, so it's fair to say your team of 2019 losers probably picked up 300k....or a fair chunk of your Salary Capped squads wages.....about double what you got the year before when you choked a round earlier
[urlhttps://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jul/26/halifax-joiners-roofers-gods-st-helens-rugby-league-challenge-cup[/url

I still love the Challenge Cup, pity it's not more popular, but that's just the way it is. Like the Caraboa Cup in football, it will really only interest the fans of the smaller clubs....like me !

Yeah may as well bin it off and let the current holders keep it

Although Sky wouldn't want to share the coverage, maybe the GF should be moved to Wembley and turn the occasion into a "proper" end of season celebration (just as the Challenge Cup used to be and then we could move the cup final venue and maybe take it "on the road" ?

It has to be said that since the reintroduction of playoffs and a GF, the romance of the cup has largely disappeared and coupled with the numerous other RL trips, Magic, South of France, Toronto etc, Wembley doesn't excite folk anymore.
The trips to the coast in a sharrabang or the annual trip to London are yesterdays thing.
People are generally more mobile these days

I don’t think we should tinker with the Grand Final. We have an event that to be fair to the RFL is pretty well run and gets consistently big crowds. I’m sure it can be improved but I’d leave it at Old Trafford.

Agree on your other points. I think it’s more social change than the introduction of the playoffs that has hampered the Cup Final.
A mix of greater ability to travel making a trip to London not the “big thing” it used to along with stagnant/lower wages, higher housing/living costs and higher travel costs among RL’s supporter base has hit the Cup Final. RL is to blame for not moving with the times and just expecting people to turn up but I still suggest RL is one of the most difficult sports to market with its current makeup.

But the sport as a whole needs to put more effort into it and needs to pull together. Selling out the cup final and grand final should be priority number 1 for the sport. It will require both leadership from the RFL and forward thinking, flexibility and co-operation from the clubs at all levels. Something which is generally in short supply on all sides in RL.

To be clear.... Development of the game in either au or uk is definitely defined by one matrix....
TV cash.
Anything else is window dressing, because without the cash from murdoch, there is no game

That’s because he created a monopoly. That doesn’t mean the game is dead without that funding. It opens other windows again. So who is holding the game up now?

The sport requires injection of money. It’s not forthcoming to the lower tiers. So why should they work harder to keep a failing product alive?

Stop blaming others for the demise of the game. Let the lower tiers fend for themselves and hopefully a terrestrial channel will get on board with them.

SL obviously can’t function without the lower tiers. So let’s see who has the balls to call the shot.

I dont go along with the stagnant wages thing being the reason for the Cup Final being less popular.
The whole thing changed when we moved to summer rugby.

When the Final was the last act of the season, all of the supporters still had something to look forward to and again, pre the move to a GF, the Cup final was THE big RL event and it has now been replaced by the Grand Final, it's just an also ran.

Personally, I'd take a trip to Perpignan or Toulouse over The Cup Final all day long.
I'm not mad keen on magic, which seems to be for too many fans a 2 day mickey up and it too has lost some of it's relevance - we have to get back to "magic" being used to spread the game and not just as a money spinner for the rugby league coffers.

On your last point, I totally agree and it's up to ALL clubs to help sell out the 2 finals.

If there is any kind of serious drive to make 9's rugby happen, there could/should be something on the Challenge Cup Final undercard, which may help re engage more neutral fans

Eh?

Not sure what you’re on about there really.
Stop blaming others for the demise of the game? First of all the game isn’t at a point of demise. Despite having dropped recently it’s still healthier than at other points in its history.
If you mean the drop in attendances at the cup final then pointing out other factors such as social change is relevant. Of course it is. Especially as the FA Cup is feeling similar strains. That’s nowhere near the “nation stopping” moment it used to be. Clubs have had to force fans to the games with including it on their season ticket and sometimes financial or ticketing priority punishments if they don’t turn up. But you’ll notice I also blamed the sport for not moving with the times. It’s a double edged sword in RL, we have to adapt and change our game much more than most other sports but we don’t seem to have the will to force that change.

As for the comment of SL “obviously” can’t function without the lower tiers, well that’s laughable. SL has been held back by the lower tiers for 20+ years. Be careful of what you wish for. If SL were to really cast the lower tiers adrift they’d be either dead or entirely part time in 10 years.
You the sport requires a cash injection and it’s not forthcoming to the lower tiers, well it’s not exactly forthcoming to the top tier either is it. The only cash injection we have is the tv deal. The SL tv deal. If lower tier clubs are so keen on cash injections from tv deals then maybe they should make themselves more attractive to broadcasters. It’s a shame some of them along with some of their fans were so negative towards teams in their league with a tv deal.

Just a thought but what about taking the "magic" weekend to wembley the the final game on the sunday being the cup final itself. As super league teams are knocked out they are paired up for the magic fixtures until the two finalists are left, obviously if a championship team get to the final this throws a spanner in the works but its highly unlikely.

When do the two finalists play their league game they’ve missed out on?

The international weekend in june, players from those two clubs would be excempt from international duty, with a may final this wouldnt be a problem. Either that or scrap the so called "magic" weekend, its about time the RFL realised that peoples pockets are only so deep and something has to give.

On top of forking out for season tickets they expect people to pay for wembley, magic, grand final followed next season by 3 tests v the aussies including another trip to London, do they not read the news or dies austerity not enter thier vocabulary.

Personally ive never been to magic and never will ,id rather spend that money taking the wife on a city break to europe than spend hours in a cramped seat watching teams ive no interest in

What international weekend? Devalue internationals? You could strip the England team of half it’s players if they’re playing then.

Expect people to pay? They’re putting an event on. No-one is saying you personally have to go to every single RL event in a year. Which basically boils down to you don’t like Magic Weekend. Which is fine, but obviously plenty of people do enjoy going. Again, just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean everyone can’t like it.

I think the most you can get away with re the Cup Final is a double header. Anymore than that and you’ll still have empty seats for the final itself.

As Axe2Grind has alluded to and others have said for a while, we need the sport to change the way it operates. It’s far too fragmented for such a small sport. Yes Man City and Liverpool can operate in a fragmented market to sell their own tickets for football events, we aren’t strong enough. We can’t continue with this - Club A only sells tickets for an event Club A is directly involved in and the RFL picks up the rest. It has to be a whole sport approach.
No amateur games on any event weekend. Amateur and pro clubs incentivised to sell tickets and travel with discounts for travel and accommodation negotiated by the RFL. Amateur and Pro clubs should also be putting mini events on of their own. Why aren’t they putting the game on in their function rooms, put a bit of food on get a couple of players there and make a bit of money themselves etc etc

Perhaps an improvement on your idea would be to hold Magic at Spurs or Arsenal on the Sunday (5 games) the day after the CC Final at Wembley with the intention of getting most of those going to the Magic Game to also take in the CC Final as well.

The issue you would have is getting one of the Soccer clubs to let you play 5 games on their surface at the start of their season.