You can still get entry into Canada with a criminal record, it just requires jumping through more hoops, as you say see Ryan Bailey. I'm absolutely certain that the recent announcement by the Canadian HC meant that they would expedite the process for players who need to do so - comments I've seen regarding HKR players would appear to support this view

Curiously, Ryan Bailey was 'unavailable' to play for Leigh, in Toronto recently! He was probably injured

It will last as long as RFL clubs don't apply in time and as long as players aren't forthcoming about their past criminal charges and convictions. You can try blaming Canada, Toronto, and the Wolfpack all you like, but most of this is down to the clubs and the players they sign.

Well as he had ceased working for TWP his work visa would almost certainly have expired. He would therefore be required to apply for an eTA which would be declined in the first instance and necessitate him jumping through the required hoops, which takes some considerable time (3 months+ before the Canadian HC's intervention if Batley's experience is anything to go by). So no big surprise really.

Was going to bring up saints signing Barba but seems he's left the club now.

All this is nonsense especially some of the recent comments about being careful who you sign in the future.

1. A lot of RL players are not the brightest so do tend to do daft things.
2. If you have served your time/payed the fine it seems grossly unfair that you continue to be hounded by it - second chances and all that.
3. Canada can legally persecute ex-cons if they wish but see point 2.
4. Its not our fault that this team decided to set up in a different continent and therefore is managing to use loopholes like point 3 to their advantage - you wait till next year if they get promoted.
5. In the end there does seem to be a way around it but again this is an extra hassle factor to all other clubs and disrupts their preparations - see point 4.

The St Helens organization isn't a tin pot one and therefore, any potential visa issues for next season will already be in hand and not left until the last minute like everyone else has done.

Regards

King James

That's literally the point of a criminal record - it's part of the punishment.

Canada is not the only country that decides that people of previous poor character aren't welcome in their country, and there are good reasons why employers may make judgements on an individual's criminal past.

Arguing "well, rugby players aren't very bright" doesn't cut it. Plenty of "not very bright" people don't commit criminal acts.

You do realise some of the best rugby league players have come from criminal backgrounds and have become sporting role models for the young, for example there are plenty of new zealanders and south sea islanders who have been involved in the knife and gun gangs especially from Auckland and have found a way through sport to change there ways.

They have been given a second chance and a lot have signed for the super league clubs but there would be a major doubt if they would be able to play a Toronto side on Canadian soil.

Regards

King James

I can see how it could be an issue with the middle 8’s with not having time to get things ready, however I would hope clubs had sorted visas for their players at the beginning of the season anyway as it would be likely Toronto would be in the 8’s.

I have no sympathy with clubs in the same league as Toronto. You know you have to play them. Get the visas sorted before the season starts. That just requires a smidgen of organisation and thinking ahead. So I can see why some RL clubs struggle with that.

Off the top of my head our very own Apollo Perilini, then Wigan have Frank Paul Nu'Ualisia some of the Tuilagi family more closer to home is Jason Robinson, and Terry Newton there are loads of players. What was interesting is if you do a search it mentions some data has been removed for Data Protection under EU Law so if the Canadian authorities refuse entry then they cannot be specific about refusal otherwise they are in breach of the EU.

The premise of your argument seems to be that the state apparatus of Canada should be altered so as not to unfairly disadvantage some English RL clubs.

An alternative view might be that said English RL clubs should sort it out themselves, within the pre-existing border controls set by the Canadian government? Seems more logical.

At the moment its just an unfair competition that 30+ clubs can compete without fundamental restriction and parity whilst one other club you can't. If it becomes the norm and you look into the future and we have Catalans, Toulouse, Toronto and New York in Superleague, then we have 2 french clubs able to sign up players that UK clubs can't and we also have America and Canada with completely different entry requirements from the UK, that for me is a right mess of what is supposed to be a domestic competition.

How to get around the problem is a difficult one and the RFL need to address the operational rules across 3 possible 4 different countries, instead of creating possible ambiguity.

pretty much spot on, its Canada not cold war era east Berlin or soviet union. or north Korea or Iran.

British.

Also another view is that it’s just posters who aren’t keen on Toronto finding any stick they can to beat them with and why they shouldn’t be in our structure.

I don’t know if Toronto/North America will work in the long term but it’s definitely worth trying to crack that market. If some genuine reasons why it can’t or doesn’t happen then fair enough, but a few daft players maybe not getting to play one fixture a year because of their own stupidity and their own clubs disorganisation definitely isn’t one of reasons.

Agreed; my take on the Toronto project is that if it's used as a jumping off point for a North American league, meaning that at some point they'll join that as founder members, with all the expertise and experience of playing in the ESL, then it will have been a success. One would hope that the links between the two organisations would remain strong, based on the springboard ESL provided - and that can only be good for the long term future of the game.

If that means some fairly minor administrative tasks for other clubs in the meantime, and the occasional missed game for some of our less savoury players, it seems a reasonable price to pay.

So the player has to provide the paperwork to show he served his time, paid the fine, got discharged, did the community service, or whatever. That can take time.

The UK has refused admission over the years to quite a few Aussies/Pacific region players.

It seems pretty obvious that there are numerous issues to overcome with playing a team in a different country and these needed to be dealt with by the RFL and not fudged at the expense of the clubs. HKR have signed players that are legally allowed to play in the country in which the league that they started the season is based. We have fulfilled our obligation as a club to follow the rules of the game.

If it is merely a meeting and a stamp by the authorities it is maybe not an ideal but bearable situation. If any of those players are refused the right to travel it denudes the integrity of the entire competition. Whilst people throw around Carney's name, just imagine if one of the players is someone who was signed before TWP were even admitted into the leagues, how can that be our fault? The people who say don't sign a player who has a criminal record because we might finish bottom 4 and TWP might finish top 4 and the stars may align so that our position means we have to travel to Toronto at 3 weeks notice really need to start thinking more about the realities of the situation!

Good post pal.

If the visa,s to enter Canada are dated as to the dates they enter and leave Canadian soil.clubs have only known when they were playing in Canada for less than a week

Blame Ralph Rimmer, RFL organiser in chief at the start of the season. It isn't as if it wasn't common knowledge that some clubs in SL were likely to need to travel, nor that those in danger make end of season signings. It certainly makes more sense for the information and processes to be put in place centrally than for each club to discover them individually.

It doesn't. The clubs understand the personal circumstances of their employees better than the RFL, they already file paperwork with relevant authorities for their players - adding a simple process at club level should not cause this level of trouble.

Canada hosts numerous international sporting events every year and we don't hear these types of stories. I can't imagine tennis forums were full of people decrying this week's Toronto Masters event - probably because the players and their management are all perfectly capable of arranging a piece of paper.

Only in rugby league do certain quarters happen to make such a faff of it and shout loudly about their own incompetance.

Of course, that's the ideal situation. However, there is/has been the scenario of a Championship club who suffered a raft of injuries in the period building up to their trip, had a couple of players suspended, and a couple who couldn't get time off work. Maybe that's an extreme situation, but it can happen, especially towards the end of the season, which is when virtually all Championship clubs played at Toronto. So, say a club starts with 25 players on their rota, in February, but by July is suddenly missing say ten players - then they may well have issues obtaining visas in time to travel.

Also, why should it be an issue with the Middle 8's? Surely all SL clubs, especially with their levels of admin staff (compared with Championship clubs) would also have obtained visas, just in case they ended up in the Middle 8's?