He's clearly referring to the amount of points we were putting on teams during matches. where we were racking up big scorelines, saints haven't been doing that this season.

1 Wolvescolours.svg Warrington Wolves 27 22 0 5 1072 401 671 44
2 Wigancolours.svg Wigan Warriors 27 20 3 4 852 432 420 43
3 Saintscolours.svg St Helens R.F.C. 27 17 3 7 782 515 267 37

Despite not "racking up big scorelines" Saints have averaged 33 points a game, compared to the 39 points a game you highlight here. When you consider Warrington 2011 is averaging conceding 2 points a game more than Saints 2018, is 4 points really the difference between dominating and not?

Only two teams have dominated a year, Saints 2006 and Leeds 2015. The better question is will the Saints 2018 team follow in their footsteps, or fall away like a Warrington 2011 or Cas 2017.

The game in 2018 is a bit different to the game in 2011 also, much slower these days with time wasting, wrestling mauls, ambiguous ref calls etc. I don't recall any of Saints games this season when they have been in top gear for 80 mins, they have a decent attack but its there defence which has got them where they are at the moment, I think they have hit 60+ points this season on 2 occasions this season but its getting a rare occurrence in super league these days as no other team has come up with big scores as mentioned.

Give over. All the table is showing, pretty similar to previous years is that things are based on how healthy your squad remains. Saints have stayed pretty good injury wise barring Walmsley but you should be able to cope with a single long term injury. Let's see how Holbrook does if he has to go a sustained period withoit 6/7/8 starters like some others are doing.

That’s the best & most honest assessment of last years Grand Final I’ve read!!

Yeah fair point...scorelines like 66-4 vs Huddersfield or 60-10 vs Salford, even 40-18 away at Cas obviously dont count as racking up big scorelines.

As pointed out above, averaging 6 more points a game is hardy domination...especially when you consider some of the whipping boys present in SL in 2011 (Crusaders, Harlequins & Wakefield were all particularly poor that year and conceding points for fun). Compare that to now where no team is repeatedly getting hammered by 30+ points on a weekly basis and I would guess if you took Wire's scores out against these teams and compared a new average for that season it would tell a different story about your "domination" in games

Either way, there is a long way to go and a lot of rugby to be played before anything gets decided...although if dominating the league means missing out on the GF altogether like Wire in 2011 then I'm glad we arent dominating or as good as you were then

Bradford, London and Crusaders were very much cannon fodder in 2011, Wire racked up 58,64,82,54,64,56 points respectively. I would imagine the bottom 3 this season 2018 in Hull KR, Catalan and Widnes are stronger teams by comparison.
Around 35% of Wires points for, that season was donated by those 3 very weak teams who were each just shy of conceding nearly a 1000 points against.

How were salford wakefield and cas that year? cos we put big scores on those as well as scoring 40 against leeds twice, 39 against wigan.

You can only beat what's in front of you, and as you say, bradford london and crusaders being very much cannon fodder saints piled on the points.

saints 16 - london 27
saints 28 bradford 16
crusaders 18 saints 34
saints 28 crusaders 12
saints 14 bradford 14
london 16 saints 34


As you say, cannon fodder.

And just to say, i'm not arguing anything here, someone else made a point, i'm just fleshing out history whether you want to accept it or not, we were smashing teams, sometimes we put the foot on the gas other times we went easy and during the season we'd beaten some teams before setting foot on the field, not that it did us any good when it got to the play offs.

However Wakey Saint seems to be trying very hard to convince himself that saints are the new big thing whilst getting his digs in at Warrington.

Are we not talking about Warrington 2011 and Saints 2018 here, if you want to go off piste, lets talk Saints 80-0 Wire, Saints 62-0 Wire, Saints 56-4 Wire, etc etc and all the other annihilations, foot on the gas so to speak.

???- all those results are 2011 so he certainly remains on piste.

Does it even matter how many points you beat teams by? I'd actually say having too many one sided contests are what ultimately cost Warrington in 2011 and Cas in 2017. If you look at Warrington's results in 2011 they hadn't had a real close score line since June when they then faced Leeds in the playoff SF, compared to Leeds who were in close battles most weeks then it was obvious who'd be better prepared for a close contest.

Winning comfortably most weeks would be good for the heart as a fan but it probably won't help you come crunch time when you're almost guaranteed close tight games.

I think you could be right with this.

Disagree.

We won our tight game in the semi final vs Saints. Couldn't get any closer.

We were then hammered by Leeds in a one sided game. So not being used to close games didn't cost us at all.

Cas started to get close games when the Super 8's started, the "Usual Suspects" started to up there game at this business end of the season. Most of the games got tougher, teams went up a notch but Cas couldn't get that extra notch for the finale.

You collapsed in the final 15 minutes with the pressure on and blew your lead, only won because Percival had a 'mare with the boot and Morgan gave away a needless pen. You didn't so much win it as Saints threw it away.

Do what you want fella, whatever makes you and the other Saints fans sleep at night.

Disagree again. We played strong for 65 minutes. Everyone has a poor patch. Ours was just at the end.

Yeh Percival had a mare with the boot but had he kicked 2 more. It would of tied the game up at 22 all with 5 mins left.... Meaning the game changes and who knows if Saints or Cas go on to win.

You didn't play well for 65 mins. Saints were better in the 1st half and deservedly lead at HT and the Cas players and fans were rattled with the latter easily worked up at the ref for no good reason. You had a good 20 min spell 2nd half and that was it.

The game we played in the first half kept us in the game. Meaning we played well. Not great but well.... We hammered most teams in 20 minute spells last year. Its how we played most games.

The fact here is we won a close game..... We lost a game which wasn't close. So the comment which said winning so many games by a big lead cost Cas is wrong.

We won plenty of close games last year too. Widnes at home which we were losing in the second half.

Wakey with a late drop goal

Catalan away we were losing at half time

Huddersfield away we were 6 down at half time

Leeds away it was 8-6 at half time

These games are all from June to the end of the super 8s.

Plenty of close games.

Hull we beat by 2 points

Bump . Not for those who criticised his interview but for those who criticised his coaching and he's been found out and under pressure. Suck on that.

Was his interview still wire were great, we can't defend, I don't know what referees are doing.

Well done on winning a game. Come back when he’s actually won anything of note

Regards

King James

All in good time king d1ck.

No other coach would have Cas consistently competing in and around the top 4. I'm not sure many other coaches could have orchestrated a result like that last night either under the circumstances.

I see some of the arrogance we saw from Cas fans last season (until their hilarious 'efforts' at Old Trafford) is slowly starting to resurface.