Tomkins is a flat track bully. He was moved to fullback to give him more space. At stand off, when playing a team with a good defence his attacking threat was nullified, as it has been at full back in the NRL, as it has been when playing for England against Australia.

Putting him at 6 at international level is a huge risk. He hasn't played there for years.

He's a good player but way too much hype was attached to him by Sky's RL team.

Of course his form is better, but no one can seemingly tell the difference between playing well for the best team in Super League (Hardaker) vs not playing well for a disjointed team in a far superior competition (Tomkins).

A fairer comparison would be Tomkins in SL vs Hardaker in SL.

He hasn't no, but it's not like he's a complete unknown is it? The Aussies and kiwis no he's England's main threat and target him. Is Messi a footballer because he doesn't quite produce it for Argentina?



F*ck it, let's just play the whole Leeds team!

Yep, New Zealand Warriors paid a world record fee because of Sky's hype



And I don't know what your point is, there is less space against better teams. Brilliant stuff! And flat track bully? Ye he's never played well against Saints, Leeds, Warrington. All of his tries came against London's reserves didn't they?

The good thing is, next season we'll find out, won't we?

I'm not sure why Wigan fans are so pleased he's returning.
I give him 1/2 season before he's courting the RU press again, maybe 1.5 seasons before he's trying to get out of his contract again. He'll become a distraction for you. He thinks he's bigger than the club.

The same reason Leeds, Saints and Warrington fans got excited when he was linked with them. Sounds like wishful thinking there because you know he can make Wigan the dominant side again next season.

Hmm, "the dominant side again"? I must have missed them winning 3 back to back grand finals during Tomkins' last spell.

I'm curious to know your definition of a bully.

Have a look at Melbourne's No 1 he isn't to bad.

I think the point is that he's not been playing well for a 'disjointed team in a far superior competition' - he's been playing average at absolute best.

In his 10 games this year, he's scored no tries, only made 4 try assists and 2 line breaks. His other game averages are 70 running meters, 7 tackles and 2 missed tackles per game. Those figures are not good reading - and if you then watch the games, you can see a reluctance to take on the line and a number of anonymous performances - he's much more keen to give the ball to his wingers than return a kick himself - kick returns and taking on the line in attack were his main attributes in Superleague.

I know stats don't tell the full picture, but on 'per game' averages, Sam isn't in the top 50 players for any of the positive stats.

I love how protective the Wigan fans are getting on this. The facts don't lie, Sam Tomkins form is rubbish, and I don't see anything from watching him currently that suggests he'll massively improve back in Superleague - Wigan will be hoping the return home coincides with a return to the Tomkins of old, if it doesn't and they've got the current version, he'll be a very expensive mistake.

2015 Hardaker over 2015 Tomkins by plenty!!!

Great post

I don't think Tomkins is the same player he was when he left Wigan. I've never understood the "once in a generation" tag that seems to have been bestowed upon him since broken into Wigan's first team. The same weaknesses that have always been in his game are still there, and I'd argue some of his strengths aren't quite as strong as they once were. His kick returns are terrible for a modern full back, and his play in broken field is nowhere near as devastating as it was and he seems a yard or 2 slower than he did a couple of years ago. I appreciate there's going to be less opportunities to run in broken field in a weak NRL team but, great players look good no matter what side they're in. His defence isn't as bad as it's made out to be, and I think he's actually improved overall, but he's never going to be on Hardaker's or Wellens' level. To them, it comes naturally.
Where Tomkins excels is coming into the line, and linking the attack. There's more subtlety to his play now, he now looks more of a half back than ever.

Or Manly's. Or the Cowboys'. Or Penrith's. etc.

Trolling aside, only a fool would say that SL isn't a better place with quality players like ST in it.

Well, from 2010-2013 Wigan won 2 Grand Finals, 2 Challenge Cups and 2 League Leaders Shields. So ye I think we were pretty dominant in that period.

Do you not agree the NRL is vastly superior? How many average looking Aussies come to Super League and absolutely tear it up? Cuthbertson this year for example. Tomkins had a pretty good first year, struggled with injuries in his second, and now he's fit again can't seem to find his rhythm and is clearly low on confidence, understandable given the state of the Warriors at the moment. I have no doubt that he will return as one of Super Leagues best players next season.

Question for everyone currently swinging off Hardaker's tail. Would he do better in the NRL than Tomkins?

Have you tried stamping your feet whilst yelling the above? It might help!

The NRL is superior, vastly superior? I don't agree.

Regarding the Cuthbertson example you gave of an 'average looking Aussie' coming over here tearing it up, for every one of them, there'll be an a ex-origin and/or Kangaroo player who's come over and not stood out.

There are also plenty of average looking Aussies who come over here and still look pretty average.

Others (and I think Cuthbertson falls into this category) may be a little more suited to the style of SL.

Hardaker would IMO. He's better suited to playing FB than Samkins.

What about Hardakers influence on the rest of his team in the build up/preperation period. Do we need to take that into account?

It depends what you want from your fullback. Sam was never a massive kick returner, he would generally turn it inside for Charnley/Richards and then try and jump into dummy half to get a quick dart upfield from the 2nd play. At Wigan he always worked with "steady" halves in structured plays that were designed to get the most of his running game alongside his excellent ballplaying ability. NZW have a dynamic running half in SJ and play in a less structured fashion, meaning Sam gets his hands on the ball a lot less than he did at Wigan and he's basically just a wide pivot linking to the big outside backs. In his last season at Wigan he scored 23 in 26 with a further 21 assists, if he's used in the right way then he's devastating. For comparison, Hardaker has 10 tries and 4 assists from 20 SL games this season.

England doesn't have a half back with a dynamic running game, and I'd steer away from using Tomkins there because he hasn't played there for 5 years (though there is talk he may feature there for NZW this season). England need Tomkins' creativity out the back more than they need Hardaker's relability in terms of defence and kick returns IMO. Hardaker at centre with Tomkins at FB for me.

Of course the NRL is superior, but that isn't the only reason Tomkins personal form is poor, unless his attitude is wrong because the NRL is superior and it's not as easy for him. He just doesn't look like he's got the same 'umph' he used to have, he doesn't have anything like the same involvement level, and often has anonymous games, his stats back this up - that's not just about the level of opposition.

I think Hardaker would absolutely do better than Tomkins has this year if he'd been playing at the Warriors - he's a more rounded fullback (those that claim Tomkins is as good defensively or under the bomb are deluded) and he's also more physically suited for the NRL than Tomkins. Tomkins looks scared to take on the line, he almost looks frail at times.

You can only play what's in front of you, and in every facet of the game, Hardaker is out performing Tomkins this year.

I'd also like to add, the Warriors were going fairly well (better than usual) until Johnson got injured 2 weeks ago, so I don't buy that excuse. James Tedesco is playing for the Tigers who are far worse than the Warriors, yet he still looks like a genuine superstar.

The 2010 Grand Final doesn't count - it is widely accepted as an aberration caused by injuries at the 2007-2012 Super League Champions.

Fully agree!

You know it!