Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"ER..Yes it was, I watched it this afternoon to be sure @43:58..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95gof3Yfbos King Kev is the number seven that hoofs it aimslessly into the Kiwi full backs hands, he then jogs upfield and joins into the defence clear as day. No need to apologise '" It was the Widdop kick on the previous set which stuck in my mind we should have been looking for touch and taking time out of the game.

Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"ER..Yes it was, I watched it this afternoon to be sure @43:58..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95gof3Yfbos King Kev is the number seven that hoofs it aimslessly into the Kiwi full backs hands, he then jogs upfield and joins into the defence clear as day. No need to apologise '" It was the Widdop kick on the previous set which stuck in my mind we should have been looking for touch and taking time out of the game.

Same one for me Wrencat. That is the one I thought was very, very poor as it got the Kiwis going forward. Might not have been the last kick (I stand corrected on that, thank you) but it was definitely defining in terms of how the match was going.

The thing I find most amusing about these kind of threads - if Sinfield was such a bang average international player, then what the hell were all the others???

Internationals.

I recall a good game where he was played at Hooker at Test level.

Your Halves have to be as good or better than their opposition, Sinfield has not been and he has not troubled the opposition enough to worry or target him.
Only to the point they knew how to shut him down as he was not agile or fast enough to break the line so he was a one trick Pony with the ball in his hands.
When you have a limited back line and a limited Half, is it any wonder why England can not get any Trophy's?

I think we have a very good back line now. Hopefully we can find some star halves in the future.

More like, he couldn't be informed as much from 12,000 miles away.
He's not as dumb as he looks.

so who replaces sinfield in the halves?

who do we think with be the halves that play down under at the end of this season...

would have to think widdop will be one .. is chase still involved in the setup?

As long as it is a halfback and not a forward playing at half back I am happy. That said no point putting two runners/support players when we need at least one organiser playing at 6 or 7. Bit of pace as well would be nice.

Reminds me of Gaz Ellis last year, wondering if Steve Mac is telling these players they will not be picked again and can retire with out seeming to be dropped?

So your blaming a kick from Widdop 3 sets back for the loss!! Incidently the kick landed on their 20 m line!!
I'm no lover of Sinfields International exploits but in his defense it was a stupid George Burgess high shot that cost us the game!!

No I'm not blaming Widdop but, IMO it was the wrong play and we could (and should) have been taking time out of the game and not allowing the Kiwis to come straight back at us.

Not a bad international career but not exactly glittering either. His greatest year as an England player was the year before the WC when he bossed Wales and France which speaks volumes. Never world class but tried his best every time.

So then Sinfield should have put the ball out of play instead of kicking it to the fullback then!!!!

YES

Pretty much sums up most England halfbacks in my lifetime.....

Don't know what your lifetime is but it remains a mystery why a sport that from the 1960s to the 1990s turned out superstar half backs like the following just can't produce one or two today:

David Eckersley
Alan Hardisty
Chris Hesketh
Tommy Bishop
Graham Steadman
Tony Myler
Parry Gordon
Alex Murphy
Sean Edwards
Roger Millward
John Woods
Gary Schofield
Dave Topliss
Andy Gregory
Ken Kelly
Steve Nash

There isn't the patience to coach youngsters into becoming top quality HB's, when there are so many "better" options down under.
It's easier and cheaper for clubs to go for an Aussie import, rather than put the effort in with home grown players.
We may even have lost the ability to produce top quality international halves, which would be scary.

But this isn't a thread about England half backs in your lifetime ......

Any decent half backs coming through at other clubs? I know Hull have a young lad they rate. At Bradford we've got a young lad called Adam Brook, been given a full time contract recently and his highly thought of at the club.

Dave Hewitt is the latest Saints academy standoff whose close to breaking through according to Brown. Played for england academy in May, but has another year of 19s left I think. The scrum half in the age group below (Rob Fairclough) has potential too Im told - but theyre a good 5 years away

I'd actually like to see more of an emphasis on touch and tag rugby at younger levels.

A lot of junior teams seem to be focused around "big lads" - early developers who can simply run their way through weaker teams. There is no emphasis on creative play because, frankly, there doesn't need to be.

Touch, which removes that element altogether and puts the emphasis on speed, evasiveness and creativity, is extremely popular in Australia. Perhaps that's part of the story why they regularly produce better half backs?

Yes and maybe if Sinfield had kicked the ball dead and we'd had a minute to rest and get organised Burgess might not have made a high tackle which to me seemed clearly down to fatigue.

widdop and chase it is then?

shame we cant tempt brough back to england!

Widdop, yes, Chase - definitely not.